botvinnik
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There are 12 results for botvinnik in the forum.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-09-08 18:10:52)
Chess tournament : Zero-sum or not ?
While discussing about Sun Tzu's "The Art of War", and the question "Is the best player always the champion ?" (of course not IMO) , I was argued that any chess tournament "was" (actually could be "reduced to") a zero-sum game :
"In 1944 John von Neumann and Oskar Morgenstern proved that any zero-sum game involving n players is in fact a generalised form of a zero-sum game for two persons, and that any non-zero-sum game for n players can be reduced to a zero-sum game for n + 1 players; the (n + 1) player representing the global profit or loss. This suggests that the zero-sum game for two players forms the essential core of mathematical game theory."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_sum_game
It seems to me that it's out of topic, but I couldn't say exactly why... In my opinion, a tournament is nearer life than game, at least quite far from it. Much more rules, often complex ones, and results that depend on many parameters you couldn't influence...
The word "champion" depends on accurate rules (the best player could finish 2nd, even if he wins all games ie. in an open tournament..), the "best player" depends on general opinion (most commonly through ratings), ie. Topalov vs. Kasparov ...
What do you think ? :-)
Where the discussion started from :
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060907/sirlin_01.shtml
I agree with many points about how to win, but the use of some words seems to be dubious...
I like much this quote :
"I was surprised to see that Capablanca did not initiate any active maneuvers and instead adopted a waiting game. In the end, his opponent made an imprecise move; the Cuban won a second pawn and soon the game. “Why didn’t you try to convert your material advantage straight away?” I ventured to ask the great chess virtuoso. He smiled indulgently. “It was more practical to wait.” "
—Mikhail Botvinnik, 6th World Chess Champion
Thibault de Vassal (2006-09-20 05:05:54)
Chess world champions
New designs !
With photos of chess world champions : Topalov, Kramnik, Kasparov, Fischer, Tal, Alekhine, Steinitz, Capablanca, Botvinnik, Spassky, Karpov & Lasker.
Elmer Valderrama (2006-12-02 15:31:47)
On the subject of intuition
Just received an e-mail from a known online book dealer
inviting me to order the fifth Volume of G Kasparov's
My Great Predecessors(about Korchnoi and Karpov).
I had a look at the online pages
of the book (first three or so) and there is a paragraph about a
proposed (by G K) division of players according to -guess what-
intuition:
1) those players without any intuition but hard work (Botvinnik, Fischer..)
2) those with strategical intuition (Capablanca, Petrosian, Karpov..)
3) those with non-balanced positional intuition (Alekhine, Tal, Korchnoi,
Kasparov..)
Very interesting reading. I guess we have to place engines in group one ;)
However, I would place Kasparov in the same group one of those without
intuition but hard work as the criteria shows that players from that group
tend to quit chess earlier (Botvinnik was on/off through his reigning) than
the intuitive players who last longer (with Korchnoi the Terrible
heading by far the lot)
Elmer Valderrama (2006-12-04 14:18:02)
intuition
I disagree, chess knowledge can't be equated to intuition, here
is my long post about it
(why am I writing about the same things all over and over and at the
same time of year, I dunno ;)
1. Players without any intuition whatsoever but great working
capabilitites (as Botvinnik, Fischer, Kasparov, ..engines..)
-they never relie on intuition (they dont have any at all after all)
so everything must be subject to calculation, they have the
"hardware" (perfect body and mental conditions, rigorous training,
perfect visual/realistic representation of positions and a great
chess knowledge which must be kept fresh in mind -if not, they wouldn't
have reference points to judge/evaluate resulting positions.
When on top form they can beat anybody and I mean ANY body: human,
extraterrestial,
ultragalactic, trans-natural, hyper-divine,etc, and for an overwhelming
score, like 6-0 ;)..well you know what I mean.
The drawback well you already know it, it last a mig, except for
the engines, no-one can keep up with this regime
(GK could for a long time, but resorting
to short breaks (not playing for WC, choosing carefully where to play
etc,) But most important it's impossible to implement for long if the
"hardware" -see above- starts to "leak oil" then it's all over..
This can be brought up to an art, like Kasparov or Fischer, it is more
powerful than understanding chess as a natural tongue (as intuitive
players) because the "top-form" competitive element is always
present and the "hardware" works in pristine conditions.
From the above it follows of course that engines are the ultimate
chess warrior over the board at least (and only there, not in CC)
2. Those who have strategical intuition. (Capablanca, Petrosian, Karpov
maybe Anand..)The general impression is that
they are simply lazy people: not need to work out any thing as they
just "know" where pieces should go and what the point is of their
moves, usually there is no need for deep calculations, just two or three
moves (4 to 6 plies) to corroborate the "feeling" and the game is won.
The "feeling" is hard to express in words, and usually is lost if
expressed in words ;). It goes beyond a simply pattern recognition,
or a full database of chess knowledge, it is about predicting the
future possibilities (not having real positions in mind, just the
"possibilities" or general lines of play in future positions which
may or may not happen to appear for real in the game.
They can play for long long time and win a lot of tournaments
(Karpov I believe have the record of won tournaments)
3. Those who have special understanding in unbalanced positions
(Alekhine, Tal, Korchnoi..) They are dynamic players who love
to calculate but not for the sake of finding the best of the best of
the best of the moves (as those in group 1 would do), they
calculate SOME variations, those who have meaning to them
I see them as players of group 2 with a more or less working
"hardware" i.e they are not going to trust 2 or 3 moves variations
neither they are going to speculate on the future possibilities
without any ground/basic calculation under it. Their "feeling" is
again hard to express in words, but I believe it is something like
calculating a 10-12 plies variation with every position in-between
being subconciously excrutinated for crushing unexpected turning moves
(this is not done by players of group 1, they would calculate
"normal replies" in that 10-12 plies variation and would have to
go deeper (like 20-30 plies to see the point ;)
So that "feeling" is what enable us to compose music, create
art etc but also it is something that enable us to err like fools :(
Whether it can be mimicked by software or not it's an open question
but as I said a calculation 40-50 plies deep it's practically
equal to using intuition...
Obviously the above classification of G Kasparov it's a bit
rough in the sense that there are very few "pure intuitive"
players (of either group 2 or 3) as mentioned by Don in his post
most of the players is a mix of talent I believe, if I had to
choose a pure intuitive player from those groups I would point
Capablanca and Korchnoi, and of course Kasparov of group 1
Thibault de Vassal (2006-12-06 18:18:54)
David Bronstein
David Bronstein (February 19, 1924, Bila Tserkva, Ukraine - December 5, 2006, Minsk, Belarus) was not only one of the fathers of anti-computer play, he also drew a challenge match for the title of world champion by a score of 12-12 with Mikhail Botvinnik, the reigning champion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bronstein
He played (and beat) all the first well known chess programs : Rebel, Fritz, Zarkov, Chess player, Deep Thought, Socrates, Saitek Sparc, MChess, Genius, Dark Thought, Deep Blue Jr., XXXX ...
Some of his games - http://www.angelfire.com/on/anticomputer/bronst.html
Marc Lacrosse (2007-02-24 21:22:11)
not so simple ...
"I think Kasparov is the best for his aggressivity, Capablanca for his semplicity, and Alechine for his tattics."
This is way too simple...
Remember Kasparov drawing game after game for recovering after Karpov led by 5-0 in their match ...
Capablanca's play was full of tactics (I would better say full of sophisticated ways to avoid tactics - which _is_ tactics at a supreme degree).
Alekhine's tactics were most of the time allowed by too weak opposition. Among great tactical geniuses far stronger than Alekhine in this field I would cite Bronstein, Tal, Spassky, Nezmetdinov, Fischer, Shirov, Kasparov, Topalov ...
But there are also :
- Positional geniuses : Morphy, Capablanca, Botvinnik, Petrosian, and an entire class above them all Karpov, Ivanchuk, Kramnik.
- Opening prep geniuses : Botvinnik, Fischer, Kasparov
- Endgame geniuses : Rubinstein, Karpov, Korchnoi...
Well a difficult question because all top class players had several masterpieces in any of these fields ...
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-28 04:01:07)
Vasily Smyslov dies at 89
Vasily Vasiliyevich Smyslov (born March 24, 1921) was the 7th chess world champion, he beat Mikhail Botvinnik in the world championship match in 1957 and lost the title one year later.
He died on March 27, 2010.
(I must say I was surprised to learn he was still alive, another proof that chess is good for the health)
Garvin Gray (2013-06-23 03:33:23)
Anyone play Semi Slav Botvinnik as black
I have had quite a few Semi Slav Botvinnik's on here. I play the SSB as black, but then when I am white I can not find anyone who plays it as black.
So I am wondering, are most cc'ers considering the SSB unsound for black?
I have a few ideas I would like to try as white, but never get the chance.
Maybe this could be a thematic, but would need to start after 10. Bxg5
Alvin Alcala (2013-06-23 19:05:44)
Anyone play Semi Slav Botvinnik as black
What about in freestyle mode?
Robert Knighton (2013-06-24 14:53:02)
Anyone play Semi Slav Botvinnik as black
it's too bad there is no way to play 1v1 unrated games at CC time controls on this site. I would gladly play a couple games like this on the side if there were.
Wilhelm Schuett (2013-06-25 12:15:31)
Anyone play Semi Slav Botvinnik as black
http://chessage.com could be a possibility
Jose Carrizo (2013-07-19 23:13:11)
Anyone play Semi Slav Botvinnik as black
Hi Garvin, I play Semi Slav Botvinnik as black. A thematic tournament is a nice idea.
There are 6 results for botvinnik in wikichess.
Sebastien Marez (2377)
d4 d5 c4 c6
The Slav is one of the primary defenses to the Queen's Gambit. Although it was analyzed as early as 1590, it wasn't until the 1920s that it started to be explored extensively. Many masters of Slavic descent helped develop the theory of this opening, including Alapin, Alekhine, Bogoljubov, and Vidmar.
The Slav received an exhaustive test during the two Alekhine–Euwe World Championship matches in 1935 and 1937. Played by 11 of the first 13 world champions, this defense was particularly favored by Euwe, Botvinnik, and Smyslov. More recently the Slav has been adopted by Anand, Ivanchuk, Lautier, Short, and other top grandmasters. Today the theory of the Slav is very extensive and well developed.
Black faces three major problems in many variations of the Queen's Gambit Declined (QGD).
- Development of the Black queen bishop is difficult, as it is often blocked by ...e6.
- The pawn structure offers White targets, especially the possibility of a minority attack on the queenside in the Exchange variation of the QGD.
- White often plays Bg5 to pin the black king knight on f6 against the black queen, and unpinning it is awkward for Black.
The Slav addresses all of these problems. Black's queen bishop is unblocked, the pawn structure remains balanced, and the move Bg5 is not yet threatening as the unmoved black pawn on e7 prevents the pin. Also, if Black later takes the gambit pawn with ...dxc4, the support provided by the pawn on c6 allows ...b5 which may threaten to keep the gambit pawn or to drive away a white piece that has captured it, gaining Black a tempo for queenside expansion.
On the other side, Black usually won't be able to develop the queen bishop without first giving up the center with ...dxc4, and moving this bishop may leave the Black queenside weak. White will try to dominate the center with e2-e4.
According to Chessbase, Black chances are about 43%
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Contributors : Thibault de Vassal, Sebastien Marez
Thibault de Vassal (2522)
e4 e6
The French defence has a reputation for solidity and resilience, though it can result in a somewhat cramped game for Black in the early stages. Black often gains counterattacking possibilities on the queenside while White tends to concentrate on the kingside.
The defence is named after a match played by correspondence between the cities of London and Paris in 1834 (although earlier examples of games with the opening do exist). In the early 20th century, Géza Maróczy was perhaps the first world-class player to make it his primary weapon against 1.e4. It is currently Black's third most popular reply to 1.e4, behind only 1...c5 and 1...e5. Players including Viktor Korchnoi, Mikhail Botvinnik, Wolfgang Uhlmann and Nigel Short have been particularly fond of it. More recently, the defence has featured strongly in the opening repertoires of Evgeny Bareev, Alexander Khalifman, Alexander Morozevich, and Teimour Radjabov.
According to chessbase, black chances are about 43%
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Contributors : Thibault de Vassal, Toncho Tenev
Thibault de Vassal (2407)
c4
The English Opening is the fourth most popular opening move in chess. White begins the fight for the center by staking a claim to the d5 square. Common responses are 1...e5 (which can lead to positions similar to the Sicilian Defence but with opposite colors), 1...c5 (the Symmetrical Variation), and 1...Nf6. Also perfectly playable are 1...e6 (often leading to a Queen's Gambit Declined after 2.d4 d5) and 1...c6 (often leading to a Slav Defence after 2.d4 d5, a Caro-Kann Defence after 2.e4 d5, or a Reti Opening after 2.Nf3 d5 3.b3).
The English is a very flexible opening. Although many lines of the English have a distinct character, it often transposes into other openings. If White plays an early d4, the game will usually transpose into either the Queen's Gambit or an Indian defence.
The English derives its name from the English (unofficial) world champion, Howard Staunton, who played it during his 1843 match with Amant. It fell out of favor (the opening was notably disdained by Morphy), but is now recognized as a solid opening that may be used to reach both classical and hypermodern positions. Botvinnik, Karpov, and Kasparov all employed it during their world championship matches. Bobby Fischer created a stir when he switched to it from the King's Pawn against Boris Spassky in 1972.
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Contributors : Thibault de Vassal
Max Rau-Chaplin (1600)
e4 d5 exd5 Nf6
The idea behind Nf6 is that black can take back the pawn the next turn with the knight and not lose tempo by having his queen attacked. If white tries to hold onto the pawn with 3. c4, black has 3...c6! offering a pawn for a significant lead in development (Panov-Botvinnik atack). Best for white is to decline the pawn and transpose to the Caro-Kann defence with 4.d4.
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Contributors : Adam Domurad, Max Rau-Chaplin
Thibault de Vassal (2407)
d4 f5
The dutch defense.
Black's ...f5 stakes a serious claim to the e4 square and looks towards an attack on White's kingside in the middlegame. However, it weakens Black's own kingside somewhat, and does nothing to contribute to Black's development. As of 2005, the defence is unpopular in top-level play. The Dutch has never been one of the main lines against 1.d4, though in the past a number of top players, including Alexander Alekhine, Bent Larsen and Paul Morphy, have used it with success. Perhaps its high-water mark occurred in 1951, when both world champion Mikhail Botvinnik and his challenger, David Bronstein, played it in their championship match.
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Contributors : Thibault de Vassal
Ron Keyston (1200)
e4 c6 d4 d5 exd5 cxd5 c4
Panov-Botvinnik Attack
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Contributors : Ron Keyston
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The hardest game to win is a won game. (Emanuel Lasker)
Tactics flow from a superior position. (Bobby Fischer)
Excellence at Chess is one mark of a scheming mind. (Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)
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