﻿ shortest possible bigchess checkmates

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Normajean Yates    (2009-04-15)
shortest possible bigchess checkmates?

What are the shortest checkmates in bigchess, for white and for black (e.g. in 'normal' 8x8 chess they are the "fool's mates" - 3 moves = 5 half-moves for white; 2 moves = 4-half-moves for black..)

So which are the bigchess "fool's mates" (shortest mates)?

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-04-15 13:48:07)
shortest possible bigchess checkmates

Good question & good idea to develop the bigchess theory :)

I don't know, no time to think about it today but it may be not so easy to do it in less than the obvious 11 half-moves checkmate for White.

William Taylor    (2009-04-15 15:24:11)
shortest possible bigchess checkmates

I like the 13 half-move mate where black pushes an edge pawn or something while white hops his knight all the way over to l15. :) May have a lookk for other ones later.

Normajean Yates    (2009-04-15 21:22:03)
11 half-moves: decent uper bound..

Thanks for the posts so far - So, we made progress (in the pure math sense) - we have a 'small enough' upper bound now - 11 half-moves for white, so by symmetry 12 (or 10?) half moves for black...

I can't say 12 or 10 (above) because I havent though about the answer at all - the question came to mind; I posted it; went to sleep... will think later..

Normajean Yates    (2009-04-26 18:11:42)
I think Thib's IS the shortest...

To spell it out, white moves Nh2-j4-h6-j8-h10-j12, while black helps by g15-g14,Nj15-h13-g15,Ng16-j15, (and one irrelevant move e.g. moving an edge pawn). That is 5 moves ['half-moves'] by each side, and the 11th half-move is white's Nj12xh14 mate (the black K is smothered and the h14-pawn is unprotected).

You need five [half-]moves for a N to reach the opposite king; so: black can mate white (helpmate ie white co-operates) in 10 half-moves.

Philip Roe    (2009-04-27 20:32:11)
Nine half-moves

1. e2-e4 m15-m13 2. Bf1-a6 Bl16-n14 3. Nj2-h4 j14-j13 4. Qh1-k3 helps 5. Qk3xk13 mate

with many minor variations.

Normajean Yates    (2009-04-28 12:25:12)
PhilipRoe+SophieLeClerc - wonderful!

PhilipRoe+SophieLeClerc (Sophie should get joint credit I think because she first posted in 'international chat' (2009-04-16 08:31:15-25) that a Q+N mate would be even shorter) - that's wonderful - congratulations!

But Sophie had posted that 'it can be done in 8 half-moves with the Q and N' (she didn't give the line). Philip's line, if reversed so that *black* checkmates white, will need 10 half-moves because the mating side in this process needs to free the f-Bishop, free the Q, move the f-bishop once and move the Q twice - a total of 5 [half-]moves. So if black mates by Roe's method it on black's 5th move - which means 10 half-moves.

So, is there a shorter way [specially, with *black* mating]?

Philip Roe    (2009-04-28 19:50:26)
Thanks for the appreciation, Normajean

I hadn't seen Sophies post. Do you have a line, Sophie? The knight looks awfully slow! Perhaps Big Chess needs Big Knights.

Normajean Yates    (2009-04-29 00:53:19)
Philip, Sophie posted in the chat..

not the forums - I am not sure she has noticed this thread. Perhaps we should send a message to her and/or post in the international chat - ok, I'll do the latter.

Normajean Yates    (2009-04-29 13:39:24)
sorry: correction: sophie said Q+B!

I typed Q+N but I was thinking of Q+B which is what Sophie leclerc had posted: I was slightly puzzled by Philip's reference to Knights in this context and I just realised I must have mistyped 'N' for 'B'; saw that I *had* ! :(

Sorry for the confusion, the misquotation and the inconvenience...

Sophie Leclerc    (2009-05-01 01:23:07)
Thanks

While I thanks for the credits, I'll tell you that I am not a woman, ( why i have that name, you doN,t want to know kay. I got a wrong name, but I like it. )

I saw to real way for black to check mate white. But to get a queen take the weak pawn. And white does it faster.

1 e4 j13 2.Ba6 h14 3. Nh4 m14 4. Qk3 Bm15 5. Qxk5 mate. was the lines I poster in the internationnal chat. ( I am not a girl. )

Normajean Yates    (2009-05-01 04:06:00)
sorry+thanks Sophie - but: its still 9..

but it is still 9 [half-]moves because the mate is on white's 5th move, so 5 white-moves + 4 black-moves, = 9 [half-]moves.

If you see, yours and Philip's solutions are essentially minor variants of each other...

In Sophie's solution, 2..h14 is of couse an easily repaired mistype [2..h14 is not possible, you see]- one can just replace it by say 2..a14.

Normajean Yates    (2009-05-01 04:18:45)
Sphie's soln is a tad more interesting..

arguably. Because, the L16-B instead of moving away, comes to k15 to be captured..

Interestingly, (very minor point) both Philip and Sophie mistype the checkmating move 5.Q(k3)xk15 mate: Philip gives 5.Qk3xk13, Sophie gives 5.Qxk5... (I just noticed it because I was reading what was meant, not what was written..)

Finally, by 'she' I meant 'she or he': I sometimes do...

Philip Roe    (2009-05-01 04:49:32)
We should all be so lucky..

to have readers who read what we mean and not what we write!

Sophie Leclerc    (2009-05-01 05:09:37)
8 moves

I am man....

The presence of knight around the king protect him from worst idiocy, I don,t think a lone queen can mate sooner

Normajean Yates    (2009-05-01 07:10:41)
yes this (9 [half-]moves seems shortest.

I agree, doesnt look like it can be done sooner..

 April 23, 2019

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