poker reflection time

  

poker reflection time


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Christoph Schroeder    (2018-08-14)
poker reflection time

In chess, an increment of 1 day per move is sensible and leads to manageable game lengths.

But in poker?
A poker game (consisting of up to 5 rounds) can have thousands of moves (that is another dimension compared to ~50 in chess). Therefore, I consider the current increment (1 day per move) as much too high.

My proposal: the increment should be one day per hand.


Thibault de Vassal    (2018-08-14 20:04:00)
poker reflection time

Another recurrent topic, which is quite logical as some games are very very long... One hand consist in a variable number of "moves", that may cause strange things with clocks, but I agree that the time control should be different, I just did not find a fine one yet. Actually, playing poker by correspondence is a very unusual thing.


Ilmars Cirulis    (2018-08-16 18:18:53)
poker reflection time

"Quite long" can take close to 5 years. :D


Christoph Schroeder    (2018-08-20 16:46:39)
poker reflection time

At the moment, there is a choice only between correspondence poker (5 years game length) and blitz (5 min + 15 sec) - and nothing in between.

The first is much too slow, and the second much too fast (noone wants to play it apparently, I spent many days in the waiting list without playing a single game).

I would appreciate if an intermediate speed, for example 15 min + 30 sec, could be introduced.


Thibault de Vassal    (2018-08-21 00:15:26)
poker reflection time

First of all, games that last 5 years are quite rare, fortunately :) And believe me, any intermediate time control playable in less than one day would be a nightmare for the players, it is way too long, it could last 12 hours or more! (the dead man defence could find its place)

Also, the reason why the most do not play bullet/blitz games here is mainly that this is a correspondence chess website first, and most players always have a few moves to play... On the contrary, the FICGS chess trainer app is quite successful on Facebook because most users of this app do not play at FICGS.


Christoph Schroeder    (2018-08-21 11:20:05)
poker reflection time

A possible way to reduce the game length would be going down to "best of three" from the current "best of five".


Ilmars Cirulis    (2018-08-21 11:26:20)
poker reflection time

Or just use "increment : 1 day / hand)" instead of "1 day / move".


Thibault de Vassal    (2018-08-21 22:22:42)
poker reflection time

Unfortunately, the choice of "best of three" would have consequences on ratings (less accurate, more variable), as you can guess.

The 1 day / hand option could be confusing and may be dangerous at it would bring strange effects as one could lose a game on time when having 2 or 3 days on clock because of a few moves played at night. This would not affect fast players, but many players are quite slow for various reasons.


Ilmars Cirulis    (2018-08-22 14:25:48)
poker reflection time

X days / hand, where X > 1?


Joshua Hansen    (2018-11-12 15:25:14)
poker reflection time

I play poker and video slots a lot here (https://mr.bet/), but recently decided to start playing chess. Is it harder to adjust?


Christoph Schroeder    (2022-07-30 23:20:26)
poker reflection time

A single stage of a poker tournament lasts 3-5 years, as discussed in this thread. Preliminaries and finals combined, we are at 6-10 years per tournament.

Is "last man standing (being alive)" really the guiding principle of these tournaments? And does this annoy nobody?

It is very sad to see that this topic is another example where discussion is encouraged, an obvious solution is possible, but nothing happens.


Herbert Kruse    (2022-08-03 05:52:20)
poker reflection time

u get 12 hours per move at first und if its at 5 days left, u get 24 hours, so time is not a problem


Yeturu Aahlad    (2022-08-06 08:59:44)
poker reflection time

For me, the length of any game is not (yet) an issue. One way to shorten poker games is to double the blinds faster. A downside to that approach is that it will increase the role of luck in the outcome.


Thibault de Vassal    (2022-08-08 01:16:17)
poker reflection time

FICGS__POKER_HOLDEM__WCH_TOURNAMENT_01__000016 :
2 years and 10 months

FICGS__POKER_HOLDEM__WCH_TOURNAMENT_02__000016 :
2 years and 4 months

FICGS__POKER_HOLDEM__WCH_TOURNAMENT_03__000016 :
2 years and 5 months

FICGS__POKER_HOLDEM__WCH_TOURNAMENT_01__000015 :
2 years and 11 months

FICGS__POKER_HOLDEM__WCH_TOURNAMENT_02__000015 :
2 years and 9 months

FICGS__POKER_HOLDEM__WCH_TOURNAMENT_03__000015 :
2 years and 5 months


Well, as the final stage will be statistically shorter than stage 1, a complete cycle should take about 5 years, or almost 6 years.

I still agree that it is very long but I never found or read a solution that does not create a bigger problem... tough :/


Herbert Kruse    (2022-08-08 08:46:44)
poker reflection time

do you really think that my solution courses bigger problems


Thibault de Vassal    (2022-08-11 04:06:49)
poker reflection time

Not really, but it does not bring so much improvement (there will be players whose rhythm will take about the same total time at the end - if I understood well) while it complexifies the understanding of the time added per move, IMHO.


Herbert Kruse    (2022-08-13 11:41:31)
poker reflection time

complexity is no problem with poker players, but if u have 5 days left u psychologaly are more in speed modus

i guess 1-2 years shorter is possible


Thibault de Vassal    (2022-08-15 02:37:37)
poker reflection time

Among those who will have 5 days left regularly, some will lose games on time, that will bring some trouble in ratings (some will consider this is a problem, others not), but yes, that's a possibility, it may shorten tournaments.


Herbert Kruse    (2022-08-16 00:03:48)
poker reflection time

ok then, lets do it from now on, before some players lose from death, instead of time


Thibault de Vassal    (2022-08-16 03:27:42)
poker reflection time

What do you think about simply reducing maximum accumulated time in poker holdem games? From 60 days to... 50 ? 40 ? 30 days?


Herbert Kruse    (2022-08-17 07:35:37)
poker reflection time

yes, that would be about the same effect - with 30 days - as my idea


Yeturu Aahlad    (2022-08-18 22:12:06)
poker reflection time

Am I misunderstanding the math? I don't think that would make a meaningful difference. Against an opponent playing as slowly as possible, the new rule with 30-day max accumulated time would end the game 30 days sooner.


Herbert Kruse    (2022-08-18 22:25:46)
poker reflection time

if you want meaningful, u go with 12 hours per move, but Thib doesnt want this, because of wins by time


Thibault de Vassal    (2022-08-19 02:55:17)
poker reflection time

"the new rule with 30-day max accumulated time would end the game 30 days sooner" : Statistically, it is quite hard to evaluate IMO... so... maybe.

Anyway, I'll make that change within a few weeks if there is no strong argument against this.


Thibault de Vassal    (2022-08-20 18:35:27)
poker reflection time

Well, after some thinking and the help of another player who told me about that discussion, I have to add or specify several points:

- There is a "max time per move" rule (60 days)
- There is a "max accumulated time" rule (100 days: chess, 60 days: poker)

- The "max time per move" shouldn't be less than 45 days, because of the 45 days of vacation (or we should lower this number of days too).

- The "max accumulated time" can be 30 days while we have 45 days of vacation, there is no problem with that.

Nevertheless, it can be observed that players like me, who play about 1 move per day in each game, never reach the max accumulated time and keep the same rhythm all time long, so I'm afraid it will not change the game duration (sometimes about 1000 days) for us at least. And unfortunately, tournaments follow the rhythm of the slowest players.

Anyway, I'm ok to test that change and we'll look at the result after 1 year or so...