ltlt 1 e4 gtgt

  
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D. Sinsuat, 1792
L. Segur, 2024

0-1

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<< 1. e4? >>


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Normajean Yates    (2008-07-26)
<< 1. e4? >>

- Breyer.


Thibault de Vassal    (2008-07-26 02:09:27)
then... ? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyula_Breyer


Normajean Yates    (2008-07-26 03:04:48)
then .. {white resigns } 0-1 :)

"white's game in its last throes" so white to save time resigns :)

Although Reti 'quotes' Breyer as above in 'new ideas in chess' - i have a copy (english tr. of 3rd ed. )- but it looks like Reti made it up - Breyer never said or wrote it! [of course he woudnt have written 1. e4? because i think algebraic notation was not popular then :)


Rodolfo d Ettorre    (2008-07-26 10:46:03)
Algebraic notation ...

I thought the algebraic notation was invented by Rene' Descartes.


Normajean Yates    (2008-07-26 14:33:08)
that's why i said ..

that it wasn't *popular* then. I didn't say it wasn't *invented* then. :)

I know all the politicians' tricks, including 'plausible denial'.


Mark Hailes    (2008-07-26 18:52:52)
Descartes

@Rodolfo. Just to be pedantic - I'm pretty sure that the well known *fact* that Descartes invented the "Cartesian coordinate system" is actually a myth.

So, in Descartes day, the notation for 1.e4 might be something like this:

"The white king, for his first draught, commands his owne pawne, and places him into the fourth house before his owne place."



Mark Hailes    (2008-07-27 02:47:12)
NJ is wrong

This game:

http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=viewer&game=20553

Would seems to suggest the reverse of Normajean's hypothesis.


Philip Roe    (2008-07-27 03:39:07)
Notation

There is a history of chess notation at

http://www.excaliburelectronics.com/history0799.html
crediting algebraic notation to Philip Stamma in 1737 and stating that "by the 19th century Stamma's simple system had become the norm in some European countries".

So if Breyer did make the remark attributed to him it would probably have read something like "after Nf3..." bur with N replaced by the symbol for Knight in whatever language he was using.

Descartes of course, invented algebraic geometry, in which a straight line is represented by

ax+by=c

and so on.


Normajean Yates    (2008-07-27 20:24:06)
Mark Hailes, what it my hypothesis?

<< >> are quotation marks! (In french), like >> << in german, ' ' or " " in english...

So how does the game you linked to shed any light on whether breyer said it or not?


Normajean Yates    (2008-07-27 20:28:23)
adding to Philip Roe 's post...

It is funny that high-school algebraic geometry is more often called analytic geometry; while in algebraic geometry, 'analytic geometry' is the branch that deals with power series in general rather than polynomials ... so what in analytic (power-series) geometry corresponds to Bezout's theorem? (I have no idea...)


Mark Hailes    (2008-07-27 23:39:13)
humble

You're right of course. I feel chastened for my presumption.









 

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