Wider rating range tournaments


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Garvin Gray    (2010-04-21)
Wider rating range tournaments

That title reads like I am doing some back-tracking (for those keeping track) and in a way I am.

I have previously asked for the rating bands of the standard and rapid waiting lists to be 200 points apart as rarely does someone join from outside those rating ranges.

Since then I have noticed that I am getting 'stuck' having to play the same people (feels that way at least).

We have only a couple of tournaments a year where players from different rating ranges are paired together and even in the World Champ groups, the 2300's or so are protected from the rest of the membership.

I would like to see some RATED tournaments created which allows more play between players of different rating ranges.

I believe this would also help with rating list accuracy as it gives the potential for players to increase their rating if they perform and would also sort out the over-rated players quite quickly.

George Clement    (2010-04-21 19:56:33)
Wider rating range tournaments

I would like to see a little wider range or tournament also

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-04-21 20:40:33)
Wider rating range tournaments

So, maybe we should come back to the 400 points ranges for every category, e.g. 1600-2000, 1800-2200, 2000-2400 and so on... ? Any other opinion?

Garvin Gray    (2010-04-21 21:30:59)
Wider rating range tournaments

Returning to the 400 rating range will not help for two reasons.

1) Players have shown with both the 400 and now 200 rating ranges that they will not join a tournament if most of the other players are rated below them, even if e-points are offered for winning the tournament
This will not change by going back to 400 point rating bands.

2) The only time players participate in tournaments where they could lose rating points is in the World Champ tourneys, where the prize (qualifying for next round and six games against strong opponents) is greater than the risk of losing rating points.

Hence why I have at least brought up the idea of another set of tournaments. The idea would be every one enters, players are allocated to groups (each group is as equal as possible), then the winners of each group go through to another round robin final group.

The difference between this and the World Champs is that there is no knockout stages and everyone starts from stage one. This means even the 2400's would have to play in stage one to win the tournament.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-04-21 23:49:04)
FICGS Cup or Open tournament

Here comes back the idea of a FICGS cup or whatever the name... I'm not sure if this is a good idea as WCH tournaments take a lot of time to most of us already, best is to gather most players in the same competition IMO.

Of course I could create a rated category with no rating range at all in Special tournaments, but I'm not sure if there is really an interest in it, any opinion ?

Garvin Gray    (2010-04-22 17:01:33)
Wider rating range tournaments

An all in rated category would not work.

I understand that the World Champs is meant to be the focal point and the main tournament, I am certainly not trying to take away from that.

Just that I am seeing an issue that has to be bugging people more than just me and trying to find a solution to this.

If you need help with setting up the groups and making pairings, I am willing to help with that to get the idea of the ground.

As for workload for the players, well I guess that is for each player to decide. If they think it is too much, then they will not play and the tournament goes no further than one trial.

Tano-Urayoan Russi Roman    (2010-04-22 18:55:53)
Wider rating range tournaments

I do not know how made this suggestion before, but what about a special tournament which enables the winner to play in an upper category, for example winner of c group special tournament is allowed to play in a b ranked tournament. Comments about this proposal?

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-04-23 00:26:49)
Wider rating range tournaments

The problem is either it would ask a big update to make it automatic or an action from a tournament director each time... If I make an update, it should probably work for all class tournaments. This is the system used by IECG but I'm not sure if it is best, and what if several players share first place & so on... Ratings move faster than at IECG to avoid that and allow players to reach higher categories in a shorter time. Simple rules are often best IMO.

Wayne Lowrance    (2010-04-23 01:11:29)
Wider rating range tournaments

Garvin, you have a very good point. I have been there and so I know how your feeling. It is very difficult to advance that is for sure.
Garvin It can be overcome, I have! please refer to my rating climb. I started off at rock bottom despite the fact that I had a rating of 2300++ going in here at ficgs. I did know know I could transfer part of my rating (1800 I Think) but I started at the bottom (1500 if memory serves).It has taken me for what seems forever to arrive to where I am now. I have worked very hard to achieve the Title and it's rating. I have a nice comp now, but the first couple of years I grew in stature with a 1.8 ghz single cpu. Have used that cpu most of my stay here.
What is my secret ?. Answer I have non. First is I have a excellent CC book (lousy for blitzing). I feel the real only way to advance here on FICS is outbook and out think your opponent in opening lines (ask Thibault :) So MY thoughts are that it would follow that I am not in favor of your proposal. Having said that, I will support what ever way Thibault goes with your ideas. Good luck my friend, I am behind you, but honestly cannot say I will support any new rating grading. Wayne

Garvin Gray    (2010-04-23 18:33:33)
Wider rating range tournaments

Thibault- This is the system used by IECG but I'm not sure if it is best, and what if several players share first place & so on...

Garvin- If several players share first place then probably it would have to be the same as for the world champs, the person with the highest TER gets the slot, or the person with the highest TER if the winner is already eligible at the end of said tournament.

Does that make sense?

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-04-24 00:04:48)
Wider rating range tournaments

Makes sense... but that will be quite a lot of work :)

Anyway, I'm still not sure if it's best. Other opinions are welcome.

Tano-Urayoan Russi Roman    (2010-04-24 01:17:43)
Wider rating range tournaments

What about paying an entering fee? Example If I want to play in a higher class tournament, for example M class, I pay an amount of whatever e points the tournament director( in our cases Thibault) stablishes.

Garvin Gray    (2010-04-24 12:03:25)
Wider rating range tournaments

Thumbs down for the paying an entry fee to get into a higher rating.

It just seems to me that it goes against the whole idea of earning your way into a higher rating group by improving your play and rating to justify an opportunity in the higher group.

Garvin Gray    (2010-04-24 12:08:38)
Wider rating range tournaments


The idea of qualification for a higher rating group might get people entering more tournaments in their 'correct' rating group.

Also, even if there is just one lower rated player in a higher group (earned by winning), is that really so bad as it at least gets that division playing, rather than sitting around waiting for someone to join.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-04-24 14:27:23)
Wider rating range tournaments

:o) .. that's a very good commercial idea, Tano-Urayoán ;) Unfortunately I'm afraid Garvin's right on this point.

You make another good point Garvin IMO.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-04-24 14:30:18)
Wider rating range tournaments

I also think about the possibility to imitate the advanced chess (Go as well) rating rules :


There may be several advantages to this:

1) It would give a better image of the quality of the games compared to the past as engines are stronger and stronger but ratings do not increase in average...

2) It would allow players to access more easily the next category...

3) Old best ratings achieved a few years ago wouldn't be unbreakable anymore...

4) It may motivate retired players to come back to the fight :)

What do you think?

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-04-24 17:04:09)
Wider rating range tournaments

Tano-Urayoán, your idea (with some changes) may be worth to be discussed after all!

Let's discuss it here: