White to move

  
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L. Sorbi, 2143
J. Helmer, 2100

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White to move!


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Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12)
White to move!

Is there a way to win for White and if it is - which could be the only move to realize this? ChessPosition (see diagram) Black's last move has been 49...Qa7. Has there been any better move for Black? Have attention to the proposals of your chess engines!


8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
a b c d e f g h




Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 13:54:23)
White to move!

Here is the FEN: 4bk2/q3r1p1/1R1p1p1p/3P1P2/4PKPP/4QN2/8/8 w - - 0 50


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-12 15:00:01)
Chess problem

Interesting chess problem...

The first move seems quite easy to find, knowing only one move wins & considering bishop and knight, but proving it is not obvious... maybe I'm wrong (my first idea was h5)... Anyway, chess engines are lost here, it seems Hiarcs is the only one finding h5.


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 15:21:39)
Chess problem

Hello Thibault, I think you are wrong! This position is one of my last finished games on ICCF and one of my best - at least from this position to the end. It seems to be very important to find first the better way for Black instead of his last move. Greetings, Wolfgang


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-12 15:29:58)
Chess problem

Ok, you got me :)

I'll wait for someone else to find the solution, but I would love to try to defend this position with Black against you, maybe in Wikichess or by email. If you're interested, of course...


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 15:34:17)
Chess problem

Fine - let us play in Wikichess! What have I to do?


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-12 15:41:35)
Chess problem

In wikichess you "just" have to follow the opening, then enter all new moves of your game until the position or complete game (but you would give the solution)... You may 'sign' the game at the end with this comment :

End of game : W. Utesch - Opponent : 1-0 (ICCF)


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 16:34:24)
Chess problem

I'm looking forward to your answer to my move 50.g5! I think, it will be a very interesting (and not too short) end of this game. It is a very instructive example of the especial appeal of correspondence chess.


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 17:04:21)
Black to move!

It seems to be an easy way for White after 50.g5! - but wait and see. The Black defending resources are not to underestimate. FEN= 4bk2/q3r1p1/1R1p1p1p/3P1PP1/4PK1P/4QN2/8/8 b - - 0 50


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-12 17:46:57)
Black to move!

Ok, that's quite funny I didn't consider the most natural move because it's a chess problem :) .. g5 is also chosen by most engines quite quickly.

Anyway, the win is still to prove. I'll try some lines in wikichess.

Note : A new feed (RSS) will be available for wikichess very soon.


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 17:57:17)
Black to move!

Not this move but the way behind that is the secret - in my opinion. Let us see!


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-12 18:00:44)
fxg5+

The battle just started :)

http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=wikichess&article=3506


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-12 18:45:39)
Nice endgame

http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=wikichess&article=3536

I quote you : "That's the nice endgame, which is won for White! .... really??? - definitely, but very complicate!"

Do you mean this is the line played by your opponent (Peter Daus, I presume) ?


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 18:50:50)
Nice endgame

Certainly not! He didn't play it the best way.


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 19:54:37)
Nice endgame

Now I have to look deaper in all the variations I investigated during the game. Here are many lines which are the same as in other variations before. So I need time now to compare it all - to be continued later on!


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-12 20:03:22)
Nice endgame

Really hard. This is not a clear win (still not sure it is)... :)


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-12 20:33:06)
Nice endgame

In complex positions it is always hard to show all lines I investigated during the game in depth (!!!) and then to be confronted with an other line suddenly, independent of its value. I don't think, that 61...Rh5 (instead of 61...Rg1) will be a fundamental better move, but for evidence I have to do a lot of work!


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-13 11:16:00)
Nice endgame

I'm quite confident of to find the solution this week. Currently I think, that after 61...Rh5 62.Kg4! (and not 62.Kf4?!) and after i.e. 62...Rh1 63.Rb6! (63...Ba4 64.e5!) will be the best.


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-14 17:07:52)
Nice endgame

Going on! 61...Rh5 62.Kg4!


Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-11-15 09:43:58)
Hi! :)

What about http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=wikichess&article=3555.
IMO, 54.fxg6 is better than 54.Nxg5.

Ilmars.


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-15 12:23:59)
Nice endgame

I don't think so! I didn'nt found any win after: 54.fxg6?! Bxg6 55.Kg3 Qa7! The engines are not very helpfully for solving this kind of positions!


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-15 12:50:38)
Nice endgame

I'm still on... That's hard ! :)


Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-11-15 15:53:18)
?!

What about 56.Qh6+ Kg8 57.Qxg6+ Rg7 58.Rxd6?


Wolfgang Utesch    (2006-11-15 16:33:53)
Nice endgame

It is another endgame, but I didn't find any clear win with Rook+Knight+2 Pawns vs. Queen. But in the other endgame 3 Pawn vs. Bishop there is a clear winning way - complicate, but clear!


Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-11-15 16:35:04)
Hi, Wolfgang!

May be you want to defend position after
50.g5 fxg5+ 51.hxg5 hxg5+ 52.Nxg5 Qa2 53.Nf3 g5+ 54.fxg6 Bxg6 55.Kg3 Qa7 56.Qh6+ Kg8 57.Qxg6+ Rg7 58.Rxd6?

:)


Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-11-15 16:40:51)
Nice endgame, too! :)

Ok, I will look for clear win!

For me that endgame is easier than another one. Here black has only one piece instead of two. :)


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-15 16:41:25)
Out of topic :)

Ilmars, it is no worth finding another way to win for White :) .. Please help me to save the Black position after 50.g5! .. that's real challenge !


Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-11-15 16:44:48)
Why? :)

Actually I think that after 50.g5 score is 1-0 already.

OK, I will try to find something for black.


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-11-16 23:48:55)
Nice endgame

Hello Wolfgang.

No need to play it anymore..... g5 ! wins.

But is it the only winning move... That's another study. Actually, this game looks like numerous high-level correspondence chess wins, "winning" moves are quite natural & clear and it may be very hard to know the first loosing move (which is always unique). Not very spectacular, but very technical & instructive. Thanks :)









 

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