Thematic Suggestion Traxler


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Ron Keyston    (2006-09-12)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

I think a Thematic Tournament based on the Traxler Counterattack would be interesting: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-12 01:08:25)
Traxler Counterattack

Hello Ron.

That's an interesting opening... Ok, we'll use it for the next thematic tournament...

Thematic tournaments waiting lists are filled quickly now.. but often by the same players. Maybe we should propose some boring openings too, to help them to have a rest & slow down the rhythm... :)

Ulrich Imbeck    (2006-09-12 01:09:41)

I had a lost as White a tournament game with it.

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-12 16:07:05)

Does any boring opening exists?! I know no one. (:

Benjamin Aldag    (2006-09-12 23:36:53)
Yes ! There is an boring one !

The Latvian Gambit is really boring. An opening is boring, if there is a better way to play. With the Latvian-Gambit, you will do all wrong, what you can do in the opening.


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-13 00:20:05)
Latvian Gambit

Still waiting for your moves in wikichess... ;)

Benjamin Aldag    (2006-09-13 15:08:29)

cmon Thibby,

i am one of the fanatic players, who is with over 100 corr-games really bussy. I will push up the wiki, after i've completed some of my running tourneys.


Hannes Rada    (2006-09-13 19:27:19)
Boring openings

> Does any boring opening exists?! I > know no one. (: The Queens Gambit definitely ...

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-14 12:12:22)
Re: Latvian Gambit

Hey Benny !

That's ok ! .. Maybe you should try not to register for another thematic tournament (that's not the reason why waiting list is closed right now ;)) before to kill Latvian gambit... :> You're definitely a fanatic ! :)

Hannes Rada    (2006-09-14 21:43:28)
100 games

Is that true ? I think, you're a chess slave ...:-)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-19 16:21:14)
Thematic tournament 14

IMO - after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 white has easy win: Nxf7 and Nxh8. Exchange and pawn more. May be it is possible to put 4.. d5 instead of 4.. Bc5?! No one is in the waiting list yet. Cirulis

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-19 16:38:37)
2 knights defense : Traxler variation

Really ? .. What about 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ ?

A line already exists in Wikichess for Traxler counterattack... Let's improve it ?! :)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-19 16:45:57)

Thanks about moving my post in the right place. I put a move for white in 5.Nxf7 variation. I am waiting for black replies. Cirulis

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-19 16:49:05)

After 4.. Bc5 white wins. Cirulis

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-19 17:12:43)

Now convinced ? :-)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-19 17:36:22)

New moves for white are waiting your reply! (: Nothing is known yet. Cirulis

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-19 18:42:49)

Waiting for your reply : 12.Qb3 O-O-O

You entered so many lines I don't know which one to play :) .. but you can see it's not so easy. I think this thematic tournament will be interesting.

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-19 19:10:56)

Yes! It is not easy to win. But white wins, i still think. OK - you interested me in that thematic. I will join! And, I am sure, I will all white games. :D

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-19 19:53:35)

Vassal, will you join to the thematic? It will be very nice! Of course, if you aren't busy. (:

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-19 20:43:18)
Traxler Counterattack


I see you're to solve the Traxler counterattack in Wikichess ! (at least this line 5.Nxf7)

I don't think I'll play this tournament :/ .. I've already too many running games, and a lot of work, yes... That's a pity, this opening is really interesting !

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-19 20:53:03)
Traxler counterattack +-

I live to kill Traxler counterattack. This counterattack makes me mad! :[ :)

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-20 00:41:25)
Traxler counterattack =

What's your conclusion after Nxd6 ? (article 2309)

Now what about cxd6 ? ;) .. (article 2308)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-20 01:17:58)

Look in WikiChess. About cxd6 - white wins after Bf7+ Kf8 d3. About Nxd6 - white wins after Qf3. IMO

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-20 01:30:29)

It looks like it is easier to play without the bishop. I need black replies in that variation, Vassal.

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-20 01:39:44)

Just call me Thibault ;)

I responded to your moves... It's still a draw :)

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-20 02:07:42)
Traxler thematic tournament

The waiting list is filled already for this 14th thematic tournament ! .. The last player who entered is Benjamin Aldag :) (Benny, this is not reasonable ;))

This opening was definitely a good idea :) Thanks, Ron.

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-20 02:56:04)
What happened with TT-14 waiting list.

It is empty (as I see).

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-20 02:56:48)

It is TT-15 already! May be I must go to sleep! (:

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-20 03:06:11)

I'm waiting for your moves in d6 cxd6 Bf7+ Kd8 variations, Thibault. (:

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-20 03:25:45)
It is a draw...

Ilmars, I'm convinced it is a draw :) .. I think I'll stop there, we can't analyze all lines. This is one of the most interesting chess openings but there's no time enough...

One interesting thing at chess : When there's a way to obtain a draw in a bloody good line, there's always a way to obtain a draw in all other bloody good lines :) (maybe it doesn't mean anything, but I understand myself ;))

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-20 03:35:19)
I understand.

But i still believe that white wins!!! :D I made new move in Kxf2 variation, and some moves instead of exd5. And I believe that it is possible to analyze all lines. Of course, not in one day. May be in 10, 30, 100, 1000 days. :D :D :D

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-20 03:50:42)

I go to bed. I will continue aprox. after 9 hours. (:

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-21 14:50:47)

Qoute: "I will win all white games". Bullshit! Look at game 3336. :(

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-09-22 21:43:46)
Hello, Thibault!

What do you think about WC article 2826?

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-09-22 22:24:22)
Wikichess 2826

Another hard line for sure...

A lot to analyze, it's not obvious at all after 11. ... O-O-O.

Good luck :)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-10-02 20:11:24)
Hi, Thibault!

I have something for you!! Look at WC article 2988. :D Cirulis

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-10-02 20:40:30)
Hi again, Thibault!

What do you think about WC article 2689? I think - it is possible refutation of Traxler counterattack. White has slow, but sure win - piece again two pawns. Refute me if I am wrong, please! (: Cirulis

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-10-03 02:00:52)
Traxler counterattack

Hi Ilmars.

IMO article 2988 is useless... In this line, when you're at article 2140, Nd7 is a draw.

About article 2689, maybe try 7. ...Qe7 when you're at article 2667 ;)

Traxler counterattack will never die... :-)

Best regards & good luck !

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-10-03 09:32:31)

In article 2988 black wins. If Nd7 draws, and Kf8 wins - who is more useless? IMO

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-10-03 12:03:59)
Traxler is dead.... :D

I tried 7.. Qe7. White wins. See it in WC. Waiting for improvements for black. :D

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-10-03 13:54:48)
Traxler is not dead.... :D

Ok, sorry about 2988... but, you play for Black now ? :)

Anyway, it only means White played a wrong move before...

Good try against 7. ...Qe7, but there's 8. ...Qg5+ 9.Kxe4 Qf4+ (d5+)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-10-03 20:38:37)
... dead :D

Hi, Thibault. I looked at your 7.. Qe7 and 8.. Qf4 line. It looks like white wins. :D

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-10-03 22:12:17)

I see no winning line... At most an unclear advantage for White.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Ke3 Qe7 8.Nxh8 Qg5+ 9.Kxe4 Qf4+ 10.Kd3 d5 11.Bxd5 Bf5+ 12.Ke2 Nd4+ 13.Ke1 Nxc2+ 14.Qxc2 Bxc2 15.Bxb7 Rb8 16.Bc6+ Ke7 17.Nc3 Qh4+ 18.g3 Qd4

...then ?

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-10-03 22:33:46)

I will think about /1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Ke3 Qe7 8.Nxh8 Qg5+ 9.Kxe4 Qf4+ 10.Kd3 d5 11.Bxd5 Bf5+ 12.Ke2 Nd4+ 13.Ke1 Nxc2+ 14.Qxc2 Bxc2 15.Bxb7 Rb8 16.Bc6+ Ke7 17.Nc3 Qh4+ 18.g3 Qd4/. And what do you think about /15.Nc3 000 16.Be6+ Kb8 17.Nf7 Rd3 18.g3 Rg3 19.Ne2 Qe4 20.Bd5 Qxd5 21.Nxg3 Qxf7 22.Rf1/. IMO here white advantage is more clear. Cirulis

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-10-03 22:53:33)
... dead!

IMO advantage is 100% enough for win in both variation, at least for me (+engine :D). (It is sad that I don't have money (enough) - I could offer you a bet.) :D P.S. Question not about Traxler - how do you make empty lines in messages?

Thibault de Vassal    (2006-10-03 23:01:05)
not dead

I just added some lines.. Forget about this, Ilmars :) .. there are too many lines to analyze, and there's no way to prove anything !

If you want to bet on this, you'll loose money for sure... ;)

To begin a new line in messages, just type "< br >" (without the spaces)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2006-10-03 23:13:37)
What about...

... friendly match?
I fight with white in 6.Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7.Ke3 variation, you of course, with black.
You can understand it as joke, too.

Ilmars Cirulis    (2015-05-17 21:39:26)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

Omfg, I was so young... :D

Thibault de Vassal    (2015-05-18 01:14:14)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

... almost 9 years ago, do you believe it? :)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2015-05-19 16:37:59)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

Yes, time flows fast. Damn. :)

Sometimes still analyzing it. I wouldn't want to play Traxler against myself. Black usually has to find draw (they can hope) in some boring endgame.

Ilmars Cirulis    (2015-07-15 15:57:00)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

This is my best try against Traxler counterattack, today.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 Bc5 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 d5 8.
exd5 Nd4 9.d6 Qxd6 10.Nf7 Qc5 11.d3 Bh4
( 11...e4 12.b4 $1 Qf5 13.dxe4 Nxe4 14.g4 $1 Qg6 15.h3 $1 Be6
( 15...Qc6 16.Ng5 $1 Qxc4+
( 16...Nxg5 17.Kxf2 )
17.Kg2 Nxg5 18.Bxg5 Ne6 19.Nd2 Qxb4 )
12.b4 $1 Qe7 13.Nd2 $1 e4
( 13...b5 14.Bb3 Bb7
( 14...e4 {Different transpositions of 13...e4} )
( 14...Bg4 15.Nf3 e4 {Transpositions of 13...e4} )
( 14...Nxb3 15.axb3 )
( 14...a5 15.Nf3 a4 16.N7xe5 axb3 17.Nxd4 Qxe5 18.Qe2 Qxe2+ 19.
Kxe2 {Endgame} )
( 15.Bb2 Nxb3 16.axb3 Kxf7
( 16...Qxf7 )
( 16...Nd5 )
17.Nf3 Nd5 18.Qe2 )
15...Nxf3 16.gxf3 Nd5 17.Nxe5
( 17.Qe2 )
( 17.Rg1 )
17...Qxe5 18.Qe2 {Long endgame, maybe draw} )
( 13...Bg4 14.Nf3 Bxf3
( 14...e4 15.dxe4 {Transposition of 13...e4 14.dxe4 Bg4} )
15.gxf3 b5 16.Bb3 Nxb3 17.axb3 Kxf7 {Easy endgame} )
14.dxe4 b5
( 14...Bg4 15.Nf3 Nxf3 16.gxf3 Bh3+ 17.Kg1 Qxb4 18.Qe2 Qc5+ 19.Be3 Qh5
20.f4 Qxe2 21.Bxe2 Kxf7 {Endgame} )
15.Bb3 $1 Nxb3
( 15...Bg4 16.Nf3 Nxf3 17.gxf3 Bh3+ 18.Ke2 Nxe4 19.Qd3 Nc5+ 20.Qe3
Nxb3 {Long endgame, maybe draw} )
16.axb3 Qxf7 17.Nf3 $1 Nxe4 18.Qd3
{Long endgame, maybe draw}

Lot's of endgames. :)

Ilmars Cirulis    (2015-07-15 15:57:20)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

* Lots

Thibault de Vassal    (2015-07-16 17:48:44)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

Lots of work!

Bogoljub Teverovski    (2015-08-03 09:43:29)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

Let's play Traxler thematic since September

Ilmars Cirulis    (2020-05-08 01:01:32)
Thematic Suggestion: Traxler

When I was younger I was embarrassingly enthusiastic about refuting this opening. :D

Remembering youth, still believing that white wins (with Bxf7) and having 11.16 epoints, I challenge those who disagree to the Silver thematic game. :)