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Garvin Gray    (2014-02-03)
Standard time control abusers

Suffering again with two players abusing the time control.

Sick of this site with an administrator who will not doing anything about it when he has the ability to do so. I believe it is time to start naming and shaming these people and will start to do so in the next post after replies from others. I really do not care anymore, it is time this issue is exposed for the disgrace it is. Perhaps by exposing them, they will be gotten rid of. They hide under the cover of anonymity.

I am strongly considering resigning both games, telling Thibault what he can do with his site and leaving. I have had a F****** gutful of these actions and having months of my life wasted.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-02-04 15:37:11)
Standard time control abusers

Time controls are the only rules... and rules are dedicated to be abused, early or lately. That's the same in life, unfortunately, noone can hope to stop it.

But we can discuss examples (without mentioning names, that's not useful IMO) to try to improve it - while avoiding to complicate it too much.


Garvin Gray    (2014-02-08 11:05:53)
Standard time control abusers

Thib, I have not replied to this because this item has been discussed before and I feel that you are not serious in stopping this issue.

There have been discussions in changing the time control, or changing the vacation rules, and other such discussions, and on each and every occasion you have said that there will be no change.

I have been left with the conclusion that you are on the side of the time control abusers and endorse their behaviour and that it is acceptable to have other players lives wasted for 30 days each 40 day period.

I have presented proposal after proposal to stamp out this scourge and you will not do anything about it.

You have the ability to do so and can act immediately.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-02-08 16:11:32)
Standard time control abusers

Changing the time control will not avoid the ways to abuse it... And we can always complexify rules (e.g. vacation) but it will always be possible to use it to gain time on difficult moves. All this reminds me the way we are governed in France, with the well known no-results...

Finally, I must say that you often had very good ideas for this site (even if many cannot be used yet because we have no players enough) but I think that your view on time controls is really subjective, probably most of us are really ok with the current rules and we can observe alternatives (iccf, wbccc, other sites).


George Clement    (2014-02-10 20:26:55)
Standard time control abusers

Thib, I for one agree with Garvin. Currently I believe the reason that no new m or sm tours have started in months is because of the time control abuse. There is no way it should take a modern computer and analyst 30 days to come up with 10 moves. They wait 30 days play 10 fast moves and are gone for 30 days again. It's one of the main reason play on this site is going down. n'est ce pas?


Josef Riha    (2014-02-12 09:09:44)
Standard time control abusers

For completely different time controls look at chesshere.com!


Garvin Gray    (2014-02-12 14:57:59)
Standard time control abusers

I found it difficult on that site to find the time controls for correspondence chess. Also I noticed that the rules forbid engine use. Which does compromise comparisons to this site.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-02-13 13:30:26)
Standard time control abusers

George, the main reason why no tournaments enough can start is that the number of new players slowly decreases for a while... I tried several things to solve this problem and it didn't work, now I'm trying other things but believe me, I'm doing my possible. The thing is that it takes time (particularly for Google) :/


Mladen Jankovic    (2014-02-14 22:18:12)
Also, other problems

At least the link is back on wikipedia corresponcence chess article, for starters, it may have been impacted by a study on external links deletion.

Another problem is that ratings appear to be negative sum, and will tend to go down accross the site. For example, I recently beat an opponent that has a rating higher than mine by almost 200, and he resigned on the tenth move, and I get *no* rating change, while he takes a loss in rating.


Garvin Gray    (2014-02-15 08:59:20)
Standard time control abusers

Ok, I have long had enough of this and since Thib believes that everything is a ok, it is time to start naming the abusers and their actions. Perhaps that will force Thib to start taking action against these people, because I, for at least one player, have had a bloody gutful of this player wasting my life.

The player concerned is: Mariusz Maciej Broniek and the game in question is: https://ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=viewer&game=71232

He has repeatedly made all his moves in the last 5 days of the time control, then let his time run down to the 5 days and then made another 10 moves and rinse-repeat and will do it again.

Mariusz is clearly able to move faster, but is deciding to 'game' the time control in an attempt to either annoy the S*** out of me, or hope that I will resign.

The significance of this game is that whoever wins, wins the tourney and all the e points, totalling 48 e points. I am +10 ahead and it is time Thibault stepped in and put a stop to this behaviour.

Either Thibault applies the 'bringing the game into disrepute rule' against players like this, by firstly giving a warning and then declaring the game lost, or Thibault makes it clear he stands on the side of those who seek to abuse and 'game' the time control and does not give a stuff about the lives of the members who they continue to stuff over.


Scott Nichols    (2014-02-15 15:42:10)
Standard time control abusers

I share your sentiments Garvin. I have, and still am playing many of these guys. It seems that they want to win points by extending the game as long as possible and hope to win by the other player either quits, gives gup chess, or dies. Another problem is players who reach a dead lost position, even one move before mate and then just quit moving altogether.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-02-15 23:44:49)
Standard time control abusers

Garvin, I know why Mariusz can play this way in general (like a few other ones) and this 'may have' nothing to do with any kind of abuse. Anyway this game seems really close to finish and everyone has the right to play games until the end. One could have chosen rules that say "every game with Rybka +/-5.0 is won" or even more complex rules involving evaluation and clocks, but this is not the case here (fortunately, anyway any rule can be abused). One can't know everyone's personal life.


Garvin Gray    (2014-02-25 11:36:55)
Standard time control abusers

Broniek is now down to seven days in my game against him and has 9 moves to make. I have no doubt that he will make the time control, then will sit on the game for another 35 days.

Thanks Thibault for wasting my life like this.

You have a choice, you can either be on the side of the abusers or the victims. It is clear which side you are choosing. At the clear cost of the site.

I know why most people are not commenting and this because they are scared to offend you, even though they hate behaviour like this. Instead they just do not participate in the events.

I have noticed that no one is promoting ficgs anymore. Perhaps it is because the members have grown tired of seeing a site admin allowing members to act in manners like this and not being held to account for it.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-02-26 15:17:40)
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Garvin, please tell me what do other sites like ICCF or any other in such cases?


George Clement    (2014-02-26 18:22:36)
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Of the top 25 active users on this site only 7 have active games running!


Peter W. Anderson    (2014-02-27 16:00:46)
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But I guess that will change a lot on March 1st when next WCh cycle starts.


George Clement    (2014-02-27 20:11:20)
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Doesn't help if you want to play in a rated tournament!


Peter W. Anderson    (2014-02-28 08:36:07)
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True!

There are advantages to how the FICGS world champs are organised, but one disadvantage is that you can end up playing lots of Wch games and not really have time for normal tournaments.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-02-28 16:36:56)
Standard time control abusers

This statistic/percentage will increase with time, most probably (quite logical)... It is probably quite the same at ICCF.

Wch is always a problem with standard tournaments, that's one reason why I was not favourable (so far) to add another cycle (cup). But I think there will be more players registering soon, things are evolving in the right way with Google.


Garvin Gray    (2014-02-28 17:15:22)
Standard time control abusers

ICCF code of conduct 2: Extremely slow play in a clearly lost position is not proper behaviour in CC play, and is subject to a warning from the TD, and will result in disciplinary action if it continuous or is repeated in other games

Playing Rules- Server

3) Failure to Reply- a. The ICCF Webserver system will automatically generate an Email reminder when a player has not
made a move for 14 days and another, after 28 generated after 35 days of silence by a player.
b. When a player is sent a final reminder after 35 days of response time, he/she must either move or report to the Tournament Director and to his/her opponent, the intention to continue the game, within 5 days of that
reminder. If a player does not move or otherwise report his/her intention to continue, during the 40 days of response
time for the same move, the game may be scored as lost by the Tournament Director.

My own words- The number of days set above are based on 10 moves in 50 days, so for our site we would use a much shorter time period.

I can not answer what happens in practice on iccf as I do not play there.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-02-28 23:58:27)
Standard time control abusers

We also have here a rule for clearly lost positions but in all cases this is subjective, we should compare many judged positions. As for the Server rule, it is just similar to the 60 days move rule... Finally what ICCF TDs can do if a player makes one move every 25 days in a not "clearly lost" position until approching the time limit? Changing rules will not change anything IMO, there is no way to prevent someone to turn around clear rules to last a game.


Garvin Gray    (2014-03-01 03:29:31)
Standard time control abusers

And once again your response is to sit on your hands and do nothing. That is your clear response all the time to this major issue.

You ask for solutions, some of us attempt to offer solutions, you reject them. You ask for other sites rules, we offer them, you reject them saying they won't work. It is clear that you have no intention of doing anything about this and that you really believe that allowing my life to be wasted is acceptable, well I don't and I am sure the others who are trapped in this same situation do not.

I really do not understand how you can think it is acceptable to allow your members to have their lives wasted by players who are clearly just acting out of spite?

Your actions are really against the best interests of this site. I know as the site administrator that is a big call, but I really do feel it is the right call to make.

When you side with the abusers and not the victims, that is what happens.


Garvin Gray    (2014-03-01 03:30:21)
Standard time control abusers

You do have a simple solution, btw. Get rid of the standard time control events and just concentrate from now on with rapid time control.

At least events will get started.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-03-01 23:51:05)
Standard time control abusers

Here is a proposal... I'll post a new topic asking who is favourable to close the class A, class M & class SM tournaments, promoting regularly this new topic in the chat bar.

Then let's wait 7 days exactly. If there are more players wanting to close (temporarily, at least) these waiting lists, then it will be done.

Does it sound acceptable to you?


Garvin Gray    (2014-03-02 04:03:47)
Standard time control abusers

I see the idea of a vote as ridiculous and a waste of time. What it could lead to is people voting to keep the class A, M and SM tournaments open because they do not want to deprive the opportunity of someone to play in them, but the status quo remains that no one is joining them.

And what happens if you only get a couple of responses, which is exactly what could happen because of general site apathy?

If you want knowledge of how people feel about these matters, but do not want to publicly speak about the matter because they are afraid to offend the site administrator because they are afraid.

I have given you the absolute 'rounds of the kitchen' repeatedly and often on this issue and have not let up over a number of weeks.

It is natural on the internet that when someone is pushing that hard against the efforts of a volunteer site admin that there will be blowback and the 'pusher (me)' will cop criticism in return.

So far there has been little to none. In fact some of the regulars have been stating that there is an issue as well.

Instead of calling for votes that could just leave all of us in the same ridiculous situation, take the feedback I have provided, and also the inactivity of the groups as the votes that really count ie the marketplace has decided that they do not want those groups, and close the class SM, class M and class A groups immediately.


Josef Riha    (2014-03-02 10:21:48)
Standard time control abusers

As I said earlier in this thread, look at chesshere.com. There are no tournament classes here.

You have three possibilities to play a game in CC:

1.) Start your own game and decide the time control and elo-range of your opponent or enter a game at the game list.

2.) If you are a teammember the teamcaptain assigns an opponent to you.

3.) You can apply a Championship with different elo-classes.

In all cases the time control range is mostly between 3 or 7 days. No extra days are added after a move.

If an opponent ran out of time you can remain your opponent to do a move or finish the game immediately. After each game your elopoints are updated and you can see your success (or failure).


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-03-02 23:20:58)
Standard time control abusers

Chesshere is a very different system indeed. There is a server for any taste, I guess...

Garvin, if there was only you, George & I responding, then you'd be probably 2 to choose to close these waiting lists so I'd do it. But if you think I've installed a terror-like system here, then this is not an option anymore...

Ok, I think this decision is quite terrible but let's do this. Class SM, class M & class A are now closed.

Rapid SM 12 is now empty, rapid M 71 has one player & rapid A 158 has three, let's wait and see how it evolves during a few weeks/months.


Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff    (2014-03-03 01:40:14)
Standard time control abusers

I can't believe that one player has success with his permanent and aggressive posts. What a terrible development of the server. So I can no longer recommend this website as a chess server.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-03-03 11:14:15)
Standard time control abusers

Not "any" player though, Heinz-Georg :) You know like me that Garvin has some experience and knowledge on all these topics and I respect it, even if I disagree with him sometimes or often.

In this case, I estimated that either I had to prove some things, or something good could comes out (if I'm wrong). We all know that we miss new players for about 2 years, so it sounds important to do something that can be seen even if the real game is behind the server itself...


Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff    (2014-03-03 18:14:56)
Standard time control abusers

Why do you think that a serious player would join FICGS if he cannot play serious correspondence games here? He hasn't done it during the last two years, so he will not do it after this restriction of tournament structure.

IMO time control 30/+1 is only suitable for correspondence cafe chess games. It's enough time for poker games, maybe even go games, but chess? That's enough in no case, if you have to work or want to play on others sides too.

I don't play normal chess on this side because the class tournaments are not attractive enough. At least I should climb the next class level if I win a tournament. With this ELO-driven classification that is not the case. And in the WCH there is not enough time to play a serious game. Furthermore, I don't like the preferential treatment (own groups) for the "better" players. I think that many players feel the same way.

By the way I think it's terrible that chess players are condemned here because they spent their time (or vacation) as they need it. According to the rules that is their right.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-03-03 23:41:34)
Standard time control abusers

At least you join Garvin on the WCH groups point (and consequently the Cup idea)...

Anyway, as there are very few new strong chess players yet, this is a quite good time to try this change. Let's see in a few weeks/months if it has first effects.


Jing Huang    (2014-03-04 00:14:15)
Standard time control abusers

I agree with this - "I don't play normal chess on this side because the class tournaments are not attractive enough. At least I should climb the next class level if I win a tournament. With this ELO-driven classification that is not the case."

I also like the cup idea :)


Garvin Gray    (2014-03-04 01:15:06)
Standard time control abusers

FWIW, seems like at least one person thinks I 'got my way'. This is incorrect, I did not 'get my way'.

I wanted Thibault to take action against standard time control abusers, which he has not done.

Btw, in one of my games I am now on move 70 and have mate 13 and I think my opponent is going to make another move and then try and sit on the position for another 35 days.

Will Thibault step in then?

The closing of the three standard class divisions was a response to this issue and the fact that they have not started for a long time and that something needed to be done.

It is only after a decision had been made one way or another that some comments have started to come. I gave, some days, between replies, for others to comment, so others had an opportunity to cast their opinion, disagree, give alternative opinion and also to add new rules if they wish.

Then as nothing was happening with the discussions and my opponents were continuing with their actions, the need become more pressing. I have never said for a second that there is anything wrong at all with a person who moves at a rate of one move every five days.

It is with players who are so arrogant they believe it is their right to waste their opponents lives when they clearly can play at a faster rate. If they can not move at a faster rate, how come they can make 9 moves in 3 days, then not move for 35 days?

A person who is legitimately time poor will make one move every few days to make the time control.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-03-05 00:23:43)
Standard time control abusers

Garvin, about that particular game you can use the rules to shorten it... the game will not last more than 30 days in this case (see 11.5).

On the ways people use their time, every player has his own reasons and I don't think he should have to say or justify it to see if it suits any "code of conduct". There must be rules and nothing more.


Don Groves    (2014-03-09 22:26:32)
Standard time control abusers

I have long ago stated my opinion that, if a player cannot make one move per week (or maybe 10 days) in each game they are playing, then that person is playing too many games. I have come up against the same problems Garvin is talking about many times and invariably players who do this are playing 30 or more games at the same time. My solution is to restrict the number of tournaments a player can enter. No player can enter a new tournament if he/she has more than two tournaments already running.


Don Groves    (2014-03-09 22:31:46)
Standard time control abusers

Perhaps the best solution is to require every player to make at least one move in every game during a 10 day period. Unless on vacation, I cannot imagine a serious player could not do this. When I play, I never wait longer than about 3 days in any game.


Timofey Denisov    (2014-03-11 03:41:27)
Standard time control abusers

Don Groves, I have reason: "Finalgening" endgames, for sample. It takes very much time :( And this process makes engine very slow, so if I finalgening endgame in one game, I not make moves in all games...


Timofey Denisov    (2014-03-11 03:42:43)
Standard time control abusers

Finalgen is http://mtu-media.com/finalgen/home_ing.php


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-03-12 13:44:36)
Standard time control abusers

Even a 10 days limit per move would not solve the DMD problem... And we had debates on the number of tournaments each player can enter, such a (big) change would not satisfy everyone (for the least, I think).


Joerg Moormann    (2014-03-14 23:19:51)
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Why not the ICCF rule, that days >20 count double?


Garvin Gray    (2014-03-15 15:50:41)
Standard time control abusers

I saw that rule when looking through the iccf rules, but did not really understood how it worked, either in theory, or in practice.

Care to explain?


Timofey Denisov    (2014-03-15 18:15:43)
Standard time control abusers

If player not make move after 20 days (vacation days not counting in these 20), then his clock will run 2x times faster until he will make move. After he make move, clock will work as usual.


Garvin Gray    (2014-03-16 08:39:10)
Standard time control abusers

So what prevents a player doing these two measures to get around the rule:

1) Putting themselves on one day vacation as allowed on here.
2) Making one move after 19 days, and then sitting on the position again till day 35.

Game would just advance one move.


Timofey Denisov    (2014-03-16 11:41:12)
Standard time control abusers

1) not working. Because vacation days just skipping in count, so clock will gain double speed in 21th day (if player took 1-day vacation).

2) Yes... maybe do more? Maybe decline 50-move rule on 6- or even 7- pieces in "normal chess"? (because exist tablebases for these endgames, and players just do moves from database), and next is do adjudgement in 6- pieces positions? Result can be gained from chessok.com, for sample. Or if 7-pieces position you can gain result from latest version Aquarium (licensed, pirated copy can't access to tablebases).


Michael Sayers    (2014-04-19 20:40:44)
Standard time control abusers

I want to offer a general apology to my opponents here re. my late start in deployment of moves by maybe 20 days in some games. Since then, I have moved promptly (within the day) of each move received.

This isn't the only venue where I play chess and I was a bit overwhelmed. Then I decided I had an obligation toward my fellow players to follow through reliably with the games.

As to players taking the maximum possible number of days to complete a game, in any system there are unreliable persons, abusers, et c., and when the rules become so numerous and strict as to prevent this then there is no remedy when a decent person needs a little flexibility - intense discomfort caused by some is replaced by slight and persistent discomfort for everybody, and probably no one wants that scenario.


Michael S.


Garvin Gray    (2014-04-21 04:18:03)
Standard time control abusers

Hello Michael,

Players starting games 'late' is not unusual. I think we have all done it through a combination of factors.

The issue that has been discussed here does not seem to be something that you are even close to doing, which is in the standard time control, wait until your clock gets down to 5 days, then make 10 moves to make the time control, then wait another 35 days and then make another 10 moves and keep repeating this behaviour.


Michael Sayers    (2014-04-21 09:41:12)
Standard time control abusers

Hi Garvin,

Then maybe the solution is reduced maximum time on the clock? "Rapid" could be 10 days +1 day per move, 10 days maximum time available, or there could be no set maximum time, e.g. "rapid" requires a move in 24 hours or forfeit, "standard" requires a move in 72 hours or forfeit. What will happen though is a replacement of some players who always take the maximum time available and those few persons inducing most of the annoyance here (Pareto's principle) - this will be replaced with some players doing a tremendous amount of forfeits.

I'm not sure which is preferred (I don't know which I would prefer to encounter!).



M.


Timofey Denisov    (2014-04-21 18:36:30)
Standard time control abusers

Michael Sayers, if you can play so fast every move, I can't play so fast. So if will be only these time controls, I will leave from this server. I want play in correspondence chess, not blitz chess.


Michael Sayers    (2014-04-21 18:45:39)
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Hi Timofey,

These are just ideas off the top of my head. I don't know what a solution would be to the issues mentioned in the thread. FYI, I don't work for ficgs and am just a fellow member commenting on things :)

Real cc needs three days per move + no big delays except in rare instances (and maybe a courteous message would help, such as "I hope you don't mind but I need a few more days here to figure out what to do", et c.). Courtsey and sincere communication make a lot of things much smoother!


All The Best,
Michael


Michael Sayers    (2014-04-21 18:47:59)
Standard time control abusers

p.s. - not everyone uses an engine, some of us still do chess the old fashioned way rather than seeking a quick Rybka/Fritz/Houdini or whatever fix, and doing things the old fashioned way sometimes might need a few days ;-)


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-04-23 00:19:10)
Standard time control abusers

A problem with starting with only 10 days is players who may start a new tournament late.

Garvin, I must say I sometimes play this way myself when I have few time during a few weeks... I play easiest moves while delaying hard ones, then I concentrate on these difficult games during a short period and play several moves... Everyone may have his reasons.


David Fierry Fraillon    (2014-04-23 09:09:36)
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Hi all,
I am suffering a player abusing of time control ... he has waiting for 29 days for playing one move and then alternating one move / one day of vacation.
I read all comments on this post and i do agree with both of you (Garvin and Thibault) on main points.
Basically thibault you're wright but maybe you will reconsider your position by looking at it with new eyes :
- In the current WCH at least 6 players are using this ''technic'' : the Pech family (Stepan, Matej, Jaroslav and Jarsolav senior), Pechova and Mach
- They all coming from Czech Republic

So what i think : it is only one player (and i am sure you can check that with IP connection). That player is not interrested in winning elo and is stupid by using the same country.
It is not a person interested by chess it is only someone who want bad on FICGS : and that the point you can use for banning him.

Obviously, I am not sure of what i wrote and in theory i do not agree with writing names of the guilty ... but in that case i think you should consider that guy like a hacker and not like a chess player using a stupid technic for winning elo.


David Fierry Fraillon    (2014-04-23 09:34:42)
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Just to precise my point :

- Evoluting rules is a good thing and the fact in implies evoluting cheats is also a good thing ( :-) )
- Allowing one day vacation should be authorized vhen too many moves to play

--> If there is a proof (IP connection or date when vacation are taken in my ''6 players case'') we must consider that we are not in a possible case of correspondance chess.
I am sure it does not happen that often.


Michael Sayers    (2014-04-23 09:37:40)
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I'm not defending the 29 day delay yet the move every two days isn't abnormal for cc chess. M.S.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-04-23 12:27:04)
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There have been many discussions here that concluded that human factor (particularly decisions by me) should be reduced to minimum... David, I'm perfectly aware of this case, this is a permanent test for FICGS rules. But reasons for a ban here would be kind of fuzzy and I think we must avoid that.


David Fierry Fraillon    (2014-04-23 13:20:16)
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okidoki ...
Reasons for ban can be fuzzy i do agree, and i think not in a ''fair play spirit''.
I should have spoken about withdrawal or something else ... whatever i am intersting in playing chess and i always intend to play my Pech's game normally.
It can even be fun to play like that : the challenge is to win by time !!! :-)

In fact i wanted to pointed out that there is maybe different ways than changing rules to avoid time abusers. It's been a long time that i did not seriously play chess, and i am not an expert in cc ... but i am thinking that the actual time rules (combined to the moves interface) are simply really good ...
As a server manager you can find out material evidence of time abusing ( even if it is not as simple as i say ) and a cheater will always find a way to cheat on new rules.


Don Groves    (2014-08-15 01:54:11)
Standard time control abusers

My position has not changed: the main reason for slow play is players who have too many games in progress for the amount of time they can devote to chess. The current level of allowable games is far too high, in my opinion. No one should be allowed to enroll in another tournament if they still have several uncompleted tournaments going on! How many is "several" needs to be decided, but 50, or whatever the limit now is, is way too many!


Timofey Denisov    (2014-08-15 11:17:28)
Standard time control abusers

Don Groves,
if reduce max number of games simultaneously played, ppl can start more games in OTHER advanced chess servers (LSS, ICCF, bestlogic.ru), or creating some clones (2nd, 3rd accounts).

And max games of play depends of player's hardware and free time on day :)


Don Groves    (2014-08-27 13:18:01)
Standard time control abusers

This is true, Timofey. Thibault has no control over how many games are played on other servers, but he can control how many can be played on this server by known slow players. Reducing those games on this server may not eliminate the problem but it clearly could help.


Alexis Alban    (2014-08-27 14:49:01)
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I don't think that's the problem Don. For example the player Garvin is talking about only has 9 running games. However his profile says that he's doctor, so perhaps life responsibilities is causing his slow play rate.

I have well over 20 games running on this server and 5 on ICCF, and I feel like I can easily handle 20 more. There are times when I'm sitting there just waiting for my turn. I am however not a doctor, although I do work 40 hours a week.


Garvin Gray    (2014-08-28 12:50:46)
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Alexis Alban: I dont you have read the whole thread and the comments from other posters who have talked about the habits of other players.

There is even a term for this behaviour. It is called DMD- dead mans defense.

And it is described very well.

They sit on their games for 35 days, make no moves, then suddenly are able to make 9 moves in 5 days, then make no more moves for 35 days and then make another 9 moves in 35 days and then it is rinse and repeat, time control and time control.

Meanwhile this is being done in positions where they are in dead lost positions ie mate in 30. They idea is solely to just piss off their opponents, nothing more.

So please do not just try and make this about one player. Standard time control abusers are a cancer on this and other corro chess sites and they should be gotten rid of as fast as possible.

They spread misery and suffering everywhere they go and the only person that really suffers is the opponent, who has to wait and wait for the games to finish, whilst the site admin sits back, does nothing and is just as guilty and the person doing the action.

At the end of the day, the person in charge who sits back and does nothing when they know of poor conduct under their watch is taking place is just as guilty, if not more so, than the original offender. This is because they create the culture that says it is permissable and says to everyone else that this behaviour is tolerated and the site is not to be taken seriously.


Alexis Alban    (2014-08-30 17:18:41)
Standard time control abusers

I understand it now, thanks.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-08-30 23:00:22)
Standard time control abusers

Definitely I'm in trouble with this problem. I still don't get why rapid tournaments (and a bit of patience... e.g. the case described by David) should not be a solution enough when many other players are ok with this standard time control, including DMD in the limit of the rules. Once more, there is no known way to avoid a Dead Man Defence that will always find a way to get around the rules, so...


Garvin Gray    (2014-08-31 10:34:50)
Standard time control abusers

Players are ok with the time control, that is not in dispute, it is this behaviour and behaviours like it.

Any arbiter feels that actions during a game are against the general spirit of the game and bring the game of chess in disrepute, they can always use the fide laws of chess PREFACE:

PREFACE
The Laws of Chess cannot cover all possible situations that may arise during a game, nor can they regulate all administrative questions. Where cases are not precisely regulated by an Article of the Laws, it should be possible to reach a correct decision by studying analogous situations which are regulated in the Laws. The Laws assume that arbiters have the necessary competence, sound judgement and absolute objectivity. Too detailed a rule might deprive the arbiter of his freedom of judgement and thus prevent him from finding a solution to a problem dictated by fairness, logic and special factors. FIDE appeals to all chess players and federations to accept this view.
A necessary condition for a game to be rated by FIDE is that it shall be played according to the FIDE Laws of Chess.
It is recommended that competitive games not rated by FIDE be played according to the FIDE Laws of Chess.
Member federations may ask FIDE to give a ruling on matters relating to the Laws of Chess.

And:

Article 11: The conduct of the players

11.1 The players shall take no action that will bring the game of chess into disrepute.

Whilst this is rather broad and rather vague, surely DMD type actions fall under this heading.


Garvin Gray    (2014-08-31 10:37:06)
Standard time control abusers

As for the idea of the rapid time control- I love the rapid time control, it is just that for my rating, and those around my rating range, very few tournaments start at all.

So to get our fix, we have to look to the standard time control events, and then we run into these issues.

I maintain that you stopped the trail of closing the standard time control divisions wayyyy too early.

Nothing at the top is really starting at this point in time, even though players on this site are active, or trying to be.


Thibault de Vassal    (2014-08-31 13:23:45)
Standard time control abusers

We had so many discussions here about the rules that concluded that no decision should be made involving any human feeling on a chess server... I remember ICCF/IECG tournament director(s) going this way as well and that's the way time/DMD rules were thought and written.









 

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