Repeated draw offers


Repeated draw offers

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Garvin Gray    (2020-12-06)
Repeated draw offers

I have noted over quite a period of time where players complain that their opponents keep offering draw after draw after draw.

At this point in time, the only avenue to try and get this stopped is to press 'call referee' and complain to Thibault.

ICCF has a different solution to this matter and I believe it should be incorporated here:

If a player offers a draw in a single game, and that draw offer is declined by the opponent, the server will incapacitate the player's ability to make a second draw offer until at least 10 more moves have been made, with one exception.

If the opponent offers a draw during a player's 10-move count (that is, within 10 moves subsequent to the player's having made a draw offer), then the player's 10-move count is terminated at that time such that the player can again offer a draw with any move. This "10-move" rule does not include claims of a draw related to 3-position repetition, 7-piece tablebase claims, 50-move rule claims, or adjudication-related claims.

Rotom Monotua    (2020-12-06 15:29:44)
Repeated draw offers

Sounds like a nice solution for a irritating, bad habit.

Thibault de Vassal    (2020-12-11 20:57:43)
Repeated draw offers

Well, I took some time to think (again) about this problem. Not an obvious one.

Of course, the best option seem to be to let players to tell the server (and their opponent, or not) what they want to read / receive [draw offers], whenever they want. All other solutions seem to be a part of this solution.

By the way, players could tell the server (and their opponent, or not) what they want to read / receive [private messages], whenever they want.

I must say that all choices [any change, or no change at all] seem not satisfying to me for now... It is a real and complex ethical question to me.

Garvin Gray    (2020-12-12 05:04:25)
Repeated draw offers

I do not see any ethical questions here.

The issue is rather simple. Are repeated draw offers a nuisance? The clear answer would be yes to this.

And so, what is a solution?

Currently, if a player is being annoyed/distracted by the repeated draw offers, they have to click 'call referee' and then formally complain about the draw offers.

Most people are not aware of this option, or do not complain. This does not mean that they are off put by it, but instead either just put up with it, which then advantages the draw offerer, or they walk away from the site and play elsewhere.

The solution I have offered allows the draw offer, but stops repeated draw offers.

I would say in all the games that have been played on this site, that out of all those games, the percentage of games that have ended in a draw after a player has offered two or more draws in a row to be so small as to not be measurable.

As a side note - As this is an ICCF rule, this means that the majority of ICCF National Federations voted to implement this rule.

Clearly, those NF's thought the issue was serious enough to implement this rule years ago, with refinements along the way to the current rule quoted here.

Since the rule has been in place and not overturned, I think the fact that many National Federations and players want this rule should be a clear clue that the issue is serious and counter measures should be put in place, as suggested with my rule offer.

Thibault de Vassal    (2020-12-15 19:58:03)
Repeated draw offers

As a first step, I added a warning message when offering a draw. Let's see if there is any effect before to envisage your solution.

Daniel Parmet    (2020-12-17 03:26:33)
Repeated draw offers

Not sure there is any downside at all to what Garvin is proposing. That said, I don't really find draw offers annoying. I did just win a game where I got a draw every ten moves for all 90 moves of the game before he resigned.

Stephane Legrand    (2020-12-22 21:05:43)
Repeated draw offers

I find draw offers annoying when a player offers draw at every move...
I would keep that player's name! I don't play tournament with this player anymore...