Please send a move with a draw offer


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Don Groves    (2009-04-23)
Please send a move with a draw offer!

I think this is standard in correspondence chess and it is necessary on FICGS because there is no way to respond to a draw offer without also sending a move in return and this is hard to do when it's not your turn!

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-04-23 19:54:11)
Move with a draw offer

Such a draw offer should never be considered. Casual online players may not know correspondence chess or FIDE rules very well, I don't think there should be a penalty in this case (but harrassment cases), but I'll include it in the rules.

Don Groves    (2009-04-23 22:35:20)
Move with draw offer

I understand the offer is not valid -- the problem is how to continue the game!

It seems the only solution is for me to send my opponent a private message declining the offer. This could lead to misunderstanding.

On the other hand, the system says it is my turn, so can I make another move even though my opponent hasn't moved?

A can of worms has been opened...

A quick solution could be to add another check box for declining a draw offer.

Does anyone know how this is handled on other sites? A

Don Groves    (2009-04-23 22:42:08)
It's even worse than that!

Even if I send him a private message, the system still thinks it's my turn, so he cannot move... Help!

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-04-23 23:32:47)
Like over the board...

Over the board, if my opponent offers a draw when it's my turn, I don't even look at him and keep thinking. I would do the same in this case (it's my turn, but the draw offer is not valid)

Normajean Yates    (2009-04-24 00:33:24)
me too: I just ignore the draw offer..

It has happened three times here in *one* game: an ongoing chess game of mine here on ficgs. :)

[The first time *I* offered the draw. Opponent moved, thereby automatically declining and cancelling the draw offer. The other two times *opponent* offered the draw and I moved.]

(btw I declined the offers not out of spite but because I have a win: all lines I tried give me a win. It is a most interesting game: since the annotations will not appear on the record; I'll just say that opponent returned my early exchange-sacrifice setting a trap: I could have reached Q and 3 pawns v Q, but opponent would then draw by perpetual! The [probable] winning line has Q and 2 pawns v Q and P, but my centralised Q and promotion threats win!)

It does look to me like a mountain is being made out of less than a molehill.. (not by me - I didn't start this.)

This post was to illustrate how there is *no* problem at all[1]; and neither me nor my opponent (both were playing their first games when the game began) saw any problem at all.

this is my last post on this topic.

[1] If there is at all a problem here, it is of the same level as the 'problem' that the following rule is not mentioned in ficgs-rules:

. 'gn is not allowed in chess unless n is an integer between 1 and 8 inclusive, where 1 and 8 are to interpreted as the standard numerals standing for integers in the ordered real-closed field R, with the *canonical* ordering. (As opposed to, say, an integer in the domain Z[2+i*sqrt(5)] or an integer in some exotic Grothendieck topos).

Normajean Yates    (2009-04-24 00:37:23)
clarificatory note to my post above..

To be absolutely clear, those were *proper* draw offers; i.e. move sent with draw-offer-box checked.

In fact in all three cases no message was sent; neither in the message box, nor by email, nor by semaphore, nor by postcard, nor by carrier-pigeon.

Don Groves    (2009-04-24 07:18:10)
Like over the board?

It isn't quite the same as OTB. In OTB, my opponent will know that I have denied his offer and will make his next move. On FICGS, the system says it is *my* move, not his! So, how does he make his next move when it is not his turn (although it should be)?

The "My moves" page is wrong and there seems no way to correct it.

Don Groves    (2009-04-24 08:08:35)
I'm a dunce...

... and will now sit in the corner. There was a move sent, I just didn't see it. Senility is a terrible thing...

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-04-25 02:58:14)

Do not worry, Don.. seeing our Go games, you still have all your head :) Anyway, the problem still does exist theorically, but I still think such draw offers shouldn't be considered.

Normajean, I'd love to understand all what you're writing here :) .. too bad that my english level is not so good (my general knowledge tambien ;) [actually general knowledge often looks like quite a waste of time to me (not exactly to justify myself [this is another debate :)])])

Normajean Yates    (2009-04-25 06:12:32)
senility creeping up on me too, and..

Don, senility is creeping up on me too - whatever made me write Z[2+i*sqrt(5)] instead of Z[i*sqrt(5)]? - that is like writing 2 + 1/1 -1/1 without realising that that is 2 !

Thib, you can read the great *french* mathematician A. Grothendieck's seminal algebraic-geometry work EGA - it is in french, of course ;)