Plea for classical rating help


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Garvin Gray    (2011-02-27)
Plea for classical rating help

I do not have a solution for what I am about to whinge about, but it is a situation I am getting a little tired of on this site and I see the situation as rather terminal to my participation here.

For the last 12 rating periods, I have had a rating between 2100 and 2200. In the one tournament where I got to play a field with consistent 2200's, I scored 50% or better.

What I am noticing more and more is that for me it is impossible to get opportunities to find out what my true standard is on here.

I am continually having to play people rated around myself or below and these includes those who are provisionally rated 1800 or 2100. When these games are drawn or lost, my rating is dragged down quite a bit.

I do not ever get the opportunity get those points back by playing people above 2200.

It is an issue that I am so sick of and I feel that my progress is being stunted because of it. My rating progress is certainly being stunted.

We do have the higher ticket idea, but that still takes six months to win one and that does NOT help a persons rating all that much.

With the WCH cycle as it is, I also do not have an opportunity to qualify straight through to group 2, like those with higher ratings do.

As I said, this is a bit of a whinge, but I really am sick of this issue and would like some more opportunities to try and find out what I am like against higher rated opponents.

It is part of the reason why I have also asked that the top rateds in the WCH are not segregated from the lower rated as they are atm. I think they should be made to start from stage 1.

Only the defending champion and possibly the defeated previous finalist should receive preferential treatment.

Thibault de Vassal    (2011-02-27 21:20:59)
Plea for classical rating help

I don't know if only the defending champion and/or finalist "should" have any treatment after all... That's the whole debate of the FIDE WCH and I wanted to make it quite the opposite way.

On the opportunities for 2100-2200 players to cross the 2200 barrier, your last 4 ratings were 2160, 2157, 2160 & 2135. The tickets system also allow you to enter the CLASS M (2200+) waiting list for 10 Epoints if your rating is above 2150. I'm not trying to sell anything there but it is an option that is dedicated to help in such cases.

On the WCH cycle, maybe another idea would be to "extend" the M Groups idea to the 2200-2300 players. With 2200 to ~2400 players in these groups, there will be more strong players in Stage 2... I'm not sure about the whole consequences but it may be worth a try, what do you think?

Garvin Gray    (2011-02-28 02:09:54)
Plea for classical rating help

I do know what my previous rating are. That is my point, my rating is stationary and I believe this is because I am not getting the EVEN opportunity to improve it by playing higher rated players often enough.

If I had many games against 2200+ers and had a poor record, then the conclusion would be very different ie not good enough yet for that rating.

Thibault de Vassal    (2011-02-28 16:05:47)
Plea for classical rating help

My point is that you never entered a class M waiting list while you were able to do it during maybe 6 months... During this time you entered many Rapid M & Class A tournaments (you play many games) so there may be also a rating management question into the problem IMHO. The same way you played 3 rapid silver tournaments, 2 against players with low ratings and 1 against Eros (good opportunity!) that you lost. These times many ~2200 rated players enter this waiting list.

Anyway I'll make other proposals in the other discussion today.

Daniel Parmet    (2011-02-28 23:29:13)
Plea for classical rating help

I feel I have the same problem as Garvin. But it does not bother me as much as I consider playing otb the real place for improvement. I just use corr as a chance to test my otb ideas. However, I still try to seek out the strongest players I am allowed to play. The restrictions I have found in most correspondence sites though is that I am not allowed to play the stronger players. The 2150 rule does not help me as I am at a mere 2100.

Daniel Parmet    (2011-02-28 23:31:07)
Plea for classical rating help

Actually my rating will probably take a severe plunge on the May 1st list because many of my games against 1900-2000s will be drawn each one will majorly drag my rating down despite the fact this is the predicted outcome as black.

Jimmy Huggins    (2011-02-28 23:37:33)
Plea for classical rating help

I guess that is one reason why you like my tournament. You get a chance to face strong players at every point, almost.

Daniel Parmet    (2011-02-28 23:50:22)
Plea for classical rating help

yes this is exactly why I love your tournament ;) losses do not bother me. I learn from them. This has been my philosophy ever since I picked up chess a mere 3 years ago. What bothers me is all the restrictions people put into to place to prevent players from improving. Most do it unintentionally. However, many US organizers do it intentionally. They either cap their event sections strictly for 2200+ or they make insane rating determine entry fees. For a non 2400+ player to enter a GM norm swiss event it can cost $400. Or for an expert to enter a 2200+ section will cost you an extra $50 at the Goichberg style events or an extra $100 for the National Open.

It is this kind lunacy that makes improvement hard. You can have all the time and money in the world and still find through no lack of effort or skill that you are not allowed to improve.

I find most of the otb tournaments I am allowed to play in now... I usually end up being seed 1 or 2. Not exactly encouragement for me to use my whole weekend is it? I would dream to be able to enter a swiss where I am the bottom seed. But for this to happen I have to break the barriers without the extreme advantage of being allowed to play strong players.

FYI, I practice what I speak. The local tournament I am running next in my area will feature 5 masters (1 IM, 2 FM and 2 NM) - and it has a low entry fee. This is the type of event I wish was more common...

Thibault de Vassal    (2011-03-01 11:04:48)
Plea for classical rating help

Same problem in France as for OTB chess (as far as I remember).

Daniel, I see that you made it the very hard way too (starting from 1300), it took a while to reach 2087 but I have no doubt that you'll reach 2100, then you can enter a Rapid M (by the way a ticket can do it already). There are solutions!

Garvin Gray    (2011-03-02 14:59:29)
Plea for classical rating help

Thib- The tickets system also allow you to enter the CLASS M (2200+) waiting list for 10 Epoints if your rating is above 2150.
Apologies for the slow replies. From looking at both threads on these items I wanted to wait to see if there were any trends. Not so far.

On to the comment I have picked out above, I just looked at the SM Rapid group and I notice three players who I think have accepted the 10 euro scheme into a tournament with 2300 players.

When I saw your comment about the ticket system, I was concerned that it could mean that a few 2150 ers enter the tournament and it ruins the experience for all.

This seems to have occurred where the scheme is in place to give the opportunity for a person to play higher rated opponents.

In fact, rechecking the SM rapid, no player is above 2300.

Perhaps the 2150 scheme should be limited to one acceptance per 2300 group. When that tournament fills, another 2150 person can accept.

So as it stands, I will not be joining that tournament as it will acheive nothing more than I am getting now, and I would be paying 10 euro for the privilege of getting nothing more than what I get now.

Thibault de Vassal    (2011-03-03 14:26:01)
Plea for classical rating help

Sorry as well, I missed your last message in this discussion. So...

1) On tickets for class M ("...if your rating is above 2150"), that was my point, nothing prevented you to use this trick when your rating was above 2150.

2) On the next Rapid SM, only 2 players used it, Marius was above 2300 then lost many elo points as he had to forfeit several games, Miroslav also was above 2300 and lost a few points. That's a border case and it may happen. Anyway only 2 players under the rating limit can enter a waiting list.

3) To clarify, there is no 2150 scheme! 2150 is for the case of Class M, for Rapid SM you have to be rated 2250-2299 or to win a Rapid M event to use the ticket system.

4) You are probably right on the Rapid SM case anyway, maybe the ticket system rule should allow players to use a ticket only if there are no more than 2 players (including players not using a ticket) under the rating range.

5) Anyway you couldn't enter the Rapid SM waiting list unless you win a Rapid M tournament. But my point was only that you could have joinded a Class M several times (with most players rated above 2200)...

Garvin Gray    (2011-03-05 11:51:24)
Plea for classical rating help

Been thinking about this issue a bit more.

I think the only solution is that more tournaments are specially run where players from the different rating bands meet more often.

So there should be a couple of more tournaments where there are no special divisions where the top players are put together against each other, rather than having to fight it out from round one with the rest of the riff raff.

This idea seems great, but the old question comes up, it only works for the intended purpose if players from the top end of the rating list actually participate.

Would they? I am sceptical.