Limit number of poker games

  
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Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-19)
Limit number of poker games

Hi all, I'd like to have opinions about a possible change of the limit number of running poker holdem games per player from 50 to 100, for more fun. This is just poker after all :)

Personally I don't need more than 50 games but I know that certain players do, what about you?

The problem is still the impact of general forfeits and not to provoke a few ones more. I guess that certain players may go easily to 100 games then realize it is too much...

What do you think?


Daniel Parmet    (2012-09-19 13:47:54)
Limit number of poker games

I think the games go far too long. I am done playing poker here because the average poker game is LONGER than the average chess game!


Garvin Gray    (2012-09-19 16:58:59)
Limit number of poker games

Leave number of games at fifty and reduce the time control by a large amount.


Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff    (2012-09-19 17:29:38)
Limit number of poker games

Hello Thibault!

Please change the number of possible poker games to 100 (or make it unrestricted).

IMO it makes no difference if a player forfeits 50 or 100 games, even not for the ratings.

If you see a way to reduce the time control, then do it, but I think there is no way ...


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-19 18:30:24)
Limit number of poker games

Yes, I'm thinking (not all day long) for years now about a good solution to reduce the poker time control... obviously I did not find something satisfying :(

I know that many members play often one move per day, this is a problem.


Scott Nichols    (2012-09-19 18:54:06)
Limit number of poker games

I've always said, use the blind control of the World Series of Poker (WSOP). The starting blinds go on forever, and then when the blinds go up, they go up to fast. The real game of poker should start on hand one.


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-19 22:50:35)
Limit number of poker games

The scheme of the games cannot be changed, this is the only way to have coherent ratings... The games duration is the price to pay to have ratings that mean something.


Don Groves    (2012-09-20 03:19:26)
Limit number of poker games

When two poker opponents are in far apart time zones, one move a day is about the maximum they can play. I vote for the blinds to increases after 25 moves.

The ratings in one or two games are not going to reflect skill anyway. Playing more games (shorter games) would do as good or better job of rating players.


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-20 12:07:21)
Limit number of poker games

Don, I'm afraid that's mathematically wrong... compare 5 single games and a 5 games match (that counts for 1 game), a score of 4-1 does not have the same impact on ratings than a score of 1-0, the chancy factor is not the same. The aim of the whole thing was to have ratings not too close from each other, in other words significant (and I think they are).


Don Groves    (2012-09-20 13:06:22)
Limit number of poker games

But if games were shorter, then far more than 5 single games could be played in the same time as a 5-game match is now. So you might be comparing 15 single games against one match. I feel this would be just as good for the ratings and a lot more fun for the players.


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-20 17:20:31)
Limit number of poker games

The shorter the games are, the more important the chancy factor is, so ratings do not mean anything anymore...

But it would be more fun for certain players, I agree with this. FICGS is dedicated to be a place for ratings, it wouldn't be so coherent. As for me I see no fun at all in a pure chancy game, it's just like playing roulette forever.


Scott Nichols    (2012-09-20 18:01:26)
Limit number of poker games

Maybe you could offer "Bullet Poker" events with bullet ratings.


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-20 18:13:35)
Limit number of poker games

Nope, as for Go (and not as for chess) we all play bullet or correspondence poker about the same way, so one rating for all time controls.


Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff    (2012-09-20 18:32:53)
Limit number of poker games

We had this discussion several times, but it never leads to a change.

My problem is, that sometimes I cannot enter a waiting list because of too many running games. I accept, that the games can last very long - that's not nice but I can live with that. But it should not stop me to get some new games with fast players. That's the reason why I asked Thibault to increase the number of poker games. Is there a problem if the number is increased to 100?


Don Groves    (2012-09-21 05:01:54)
Limit number of poker games

Thib: Granted shorter games are more chancy but that is offset by playing a lot more games. The total number of *deals* is what offsets the chancy factor.

10 games of 100 deals has the same probability effect as 2 games of 500 deals. But 10 games in the same timeframe as 2 is a lot more fun, imho.


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-21 12:10:16)
Limit number of poker games

The problem is how the chancy factor interfers on ratings. 10 games of 100 deals will provoke ratings much closer than 2 games of 500 deals or 1 game of 1000 deals, obviously. But it would be more fun, I agree (again).


Don Groves    (2012-09-21 13:40:32)
Limit number of poker games

How would it "provoke ratings much closer?" What do you think would be the specific effect on ratings?


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-22 12:39:41)
Limit number of poker games

It is possible to calculate it but in brief, for 1 game of 1000 dealts, the perf will be opp.rating +350 or opp.rating -350 .. for 10 games of 100 deals with a score of 7/3 (which is quite unbalanced already for so few hands), the perf will be about opp.rating +170 or opp.rating -170


Don Groves    (2012-09-23 05:49:25)
Limit number of poker games

The difference is not so great that I wouldn't enjoy shorter games more. 170 ELO points is still very significant given how slowly poker ratings change.


Garvin Gray    (2012-09-23 08:11:54)
Limit number of poker games

I have tried reading this thread a few times, but seem to be missing a point or three, maybe even four.

1) Thib- Can you explain this a bit more in simpler fashion :)- It is possible to calculate it but in brief, for 1 game of 1000 dealts, the perf will be opp.rating +350 or opp.rating -350 .. for 10 games of 100 deals with a score of 7/3 (which is quite unbalanced already for so few hands), the perf will be about opp.rating +170 or opp.rating -170

2) When posters are referring to faster games, are they talking about reducing the time control, or having the blinds increase at a faster rate?

3) I would prefer best of 3, rather than best of 5. I am not sure if best of 5 on here really does produce more accurate ratings as I find it quite common that players will go all in early, or take risks early on, knowing even if they lose set 1, they are only behind 1-0 and there is a long way to go. Best of 3 would force players to play 'real poker' from earlier on.

This would produce more meaningful results.

The number of hands I play which involve just 1 and 2 chips pisses me off no end and deters me from playing more often.


Don Groves    (2012-09-23 12:44:57)
Limit number of poker games

My answer is to increase the blinds faster. As Thib says, this reduces the skill effect in games but I think more games played will make up for most of that. Plus there's the fun factor. As you say, those first 50 moves can be boring.

Some players here offset that by going all in often. But that also reduces the skill effect.


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-25 23:27:53)
Limit number of poker games

@Garvin:

1) It would be quite long to explain the full calculation for different examples, maybe best is to have a deep look at rating rules then come back to the discussion, sorry if it is not clear enough after that but trust me, it would change everything on ratings.

2) Both, I guess... the problem is that blinds shouldn't change and there isn't time controls that solve the problem.

3) Those who will go all in early will probably not reach the top of the rating list... That's the point :)

Hands that involve just 1 and 2 chips are real poker! The technical one, not the chancy one.


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-25 23:30:02)
Limit number of poker games

Finally I've decided to change the limit number of poker games from 50 to 100, temporarily or not (we'll see if it has more good effects than bad ones).

But we can continue the discussion, still looking for good ideas.









 

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