Issue for 2150 rated players


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Garvin Gray    (2009-08-29)
Issue for 2150 rated players

I am starting to notice an issue with how the rating bands are set for tournaments, both standard and rapid.

Currently I am rated between 2150 and 2200, depending on the rating period. After having been in this rating band for a couple of rating periods, I am noticing it is very difficult to get rated games against players rated above 2200.

This makes it very difficult to improve my rating, or at least have it proven that my playing standard is not deserved of a higher rating, or a lower rating as the case maybe.

I know it is possible to look at my results from players rated similar to myself and try and work out conclusions from there, but to not have the opportunity to play people rated above myself does not afford me the opportunity to see how I go against them, or to record results against higher rated players that might suggest I am underrated.

I suggested awhile ago that each of the tournament bands need to be 200 points apart, with the standard and rapid tournaments operated on odds and evens 200 point rating bands. I still believe this to be the answer to a lot of the sites ills as I still see many tournaments where players just under the rating cut off not entering when the rating band is 400 points.

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-08-30 01:24:36)
Issue for 2150 rated players

That's why WCH round-robin groups are useful to help players to find more quickly their rating... Unfortunately, it seems we go towards a 8 months cycle instead of 6 months.

So your idea is to make the rapid tournaments like the standard (class) ones with 400 points bands -am I right- ?

I'm not sure it will solve the problem but we may try, why not... Any opinion ?

Scott Nichols    (2009-08-30 02:23:09)
Same question

This is exactly the same question I asked in "Rapid Expansion?" Players who prefer the faster time controls are very limited in the choices they have. Count my vote on a 400 point band for rapid tours as a YES.

Garvin Gray    (2009-08-30 16:23:48)
200 point bands in both!

nooooo, i am suggesting the complete opposite. That in both standard time control and rapid that the bands be 200 points.

It is only that in the standard time control that the bands be 1700-1899, 1900-2099, 2100-2299, 2300-2499 etc and for rapid it would be 1800-1999, 2000-2199, 2200-2399, 2400-2599.

This would mean for a person with a rating of 1950 would be at the top of the ratings for one of the bands and at the bottom of the bands for the other.

Don Groves    (2009-08-31 00:58:08)
My .02 Euros

As I understand it, the current limit for a game to affect ratings is 350 ELO points. If so, then why would any player near the top of a 400 rating band enter a tournament unless at least one other player near his/her rating has already entered? Otherwise, that player stands to gain little or nothing from winning.

It seems logical to me that the rating band be smaller than the rating limit to insure that all the games will be rated.

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-08-31 13:54:30)
200 or 400 points bands

I think I now understand what you mean, in my opinion it wouldn't change many things, in both cases by the way. There are some quite small advantages & inconvenients in both cases. So if anyone has some more ideas on what is best and why, (s)he's welcome... :)

Michael Sharland    (2009-09-01 03:41:29)
I agree with the Garvin's suggestion

If you look at the waiting list for any of the standard tournaments, you will typically see only players rated in the bottom 100 points of the band. This means that certain ranges are missing profitable opportunities to play and move up their ratings.

By narrowing the standard tournament bands and offsetting them with the rapid tournament bands, you will likely see an increase in signups as more players will find tournaments that align with their desire for the ability to make rating progress.

I am also in this 2100-2199 rating range and feel that there is no tournament that I can sign up for that would help my rating improve. So I find myself waiting for a WCH tournament to move me up or down rather than playing a new tournament as I would like to.

Don Groves    (2009-09-01 04:46:20)

What is the rationale for having a 400 point range in standard tournaments and a 200 point range in rapid tournaments?

Garvin Gray    (2009-09-01 15:41:42)
Don Groves

Don, is your question directed to anyone?

Don Groves    (2009-09-02 00:03:26)

Sure. Probably Thibault has the best answer though ;-)

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-09-02 02:06:53)

The rationale for the 400 points bands in class tournaments and 200 bands in rapid tournaments is to reduce the number of opportunities to play rapid tournaments (that are much more time consuming and may lead to general forfeits)... I still do not understand why 400 points bands are a problem as most players play the tournaments that may help to increase their rating (as Michael said, by the way the Rapid M seems quite dedicated for 2100-2199 rated players, actually a future improvement may be 100 points bands).

Anyway, I see no strong reason not to try this change... let's do it unless someone sees this strong reason.

Garvin Gray    (2009-09-02 07:33:40)
to be clear

Apologies if my post irks anyone, but just to be clear, the standard and rapid rating cutoffs have to at the opposite 100 point bands.

So as I said previously,

It is only that in the standard time control that the bands be 1700-1899, 1900-2099, 2100-2299, 2300-2499 etc and for rapid it would be 1800-1999, 2000-2199, 2200-2399, 2400-2599.

Of course this idea also works if Thibault decides to have the standard tournaments using an even rating cutoff ie 1800-1999, 2000-2199 etc.

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-09-02 16:18:33)
Rating bands change

Ok, I've changed the rating bands for class tournaments as Garvin & Don suggested... Let's try and see.

Garvin Gray    (2009-09-13 17:08:24)
to all players


In regards to the recent changes, I am not sure how many players on here would be aware that the rating cutoffs have changed in the waiting lists.

I think it might be a good idea to send a general message via email to all members informing them of the change, so then they are aware of it.

Wayne Lowrance    (2009-09-13 21:55:35)

Howdy gang, Thibault, I guess I am dense. Would you please post here when the changes are effect, AND just why the hey they are

Wayne Lowrance    (2009-09-14 17:11:09)
sorry my response misleadingg

Oppps just looked at my query response. It sounded disrespectful, which I did not intend it to say, also a typo that made it sound worse. Sorry.

Garvin Gray    (2009-09-14 18:27:48)
changes already made!

Wayne, the changes are already in effect and have been for at least a week.

Thibault de Vassal    (2009-09-14 21:22:36)
Rating cutoffs change

Hi Wayne, no problem :) .. The responses are in this discussion, right ?

Garvin, it seems to me that this is a minor change (only for chess class tournaments) that does not change anything to most players, I did not want to annoy all members with such an email.