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Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-08)
As you may have read on TCCMB forum, ICCF officials reacted when they learnt about FICGS titles. My idea was it first to be informative (titles from ICCF/IECG/FIDE), because I think players like to know who they play against, particularly if their opponents are titled. It seems obvious to me that FICGS titles are FICGS ones, not "official", not ICCF or FIDE.. even if words are quite the same (titles are FICGS IM, not IM).
I would like to know what you think about that. Do you think FICGS titles should be renamed (ie. FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM), or do you think there's no possible confusion between FIDE/ICCF/IECG/FICGS titles ? This is an interesting debate I invite you to follow :
Thank you for your advices.
Hannes Rada (2006-04-08 19:12:59)
I thing titles provide an incentive for players and their wording is not really important. To avoid potential conflicts with other bureaucratic organisations you should maybe rename them to FEM, FIM, FSIM, FGM ...
Per Lea (2006-04-08 23:09:40)
A provocative question: Do we really need titles at all? Isn't rating more informative than a title that maybe has been won when the player was at the top of his playing strength, many years ago? I admit the rating system isn't perfect, but I still claim it tells me more than a title. Being a Norwegian I am possibly less obsessed with titles (within all walks of life) than people from other countries?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-09 10:27:28)
I think the rating system tell a lot, titles just tell something more. What I think is to let appear "official" titles EM, IM, SIM, GM (note that I consider IECG titles as official ones)... Titles obtained on FICGS will appear differently (ie. FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM, and in another color..) I think it may fit to everyone, what do you think about ?
Per Lea (2006-04-09 11:37:05)
In my opinion, there are only 2 official sets of titles in the chess world, belonging to the only officialy accepted world-wide chess organisations: ICCF and FIDE.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-11 14:54:36)
Hello to all.
I would like to have players opinion !
As you may have noticed, I already changed FICGS titles to FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM. (not titles obtained elsewhere) Do you agree with titles appearing this way ?
I thought several other ways : EFM, IFM, SFM, GFM, or only to mention norms obtained ! (not titles) At last, of course, we can suppress definitely titles from FICGS, a bad idea in my opinion. What do you think about that ?
Thank you in advance for your responses.
Hannes Rada (2006-04-11 21:03:24)
FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM. That's in my opinion a good compromise. Don't worry about the attacks of the guys in the Correspondence Chess Message Board. Just follow your dreams ....
Dinesh De Silva (2006-04-12 07:24:22)
I think the answer is obvious. FICGS titles should be named FICGS EM, FICGS IM etc, so that it's clear from where the titles are got from. By putting the organization's name in front of the title this way, I don't see any problems. I think the majority are bound to agree, and there won't be any sorta arguments with other organizations. After all, the world is a very big place.... there's enough room for everybody! I find FICGS a very friendly place. Also, organizations like IECG, ICCF, LIAPE etc. are very hardworking, dedicated organizations too, and I enjoy playing in them too. My thanks to you all.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 11:24:03)
FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM
What do you think about all titles not from FIDE / ICCF to be renamed with 'F' letter added. I tried to add 'I' for IECG, but this is really not convenient for the eye... :/ (see the new rating list)
Dinesh De Silva (2006-04-12 12:27:56)
I saw the rating list, with the title changes....Interesting idea......But what will the titles be called when some of us eventually gain FICGS titles?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 12:46:22)
FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM
About titles obtained on FICGS, it would be the same ones. We have choice : We could add a special letter, from the organization the title comes from (very confusing I think : IIM.. IECG / ICCF) .. or consider EM, IM, SM, GM are "official" titles, and FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM are the other ones, including FICGS ones... Probably not perfect. Any idea ?
Dinesh De Silva (2006-04-12 12:52:51)
How about contacting IECG, ICCF etc and reaching an amicable solution regarding how to name the titles on FICGS?!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 14:02:49)
One solution could be to display titles from organizations in separated columns named FICGS, ICCF, FIDE, IECG etc... (as Chessfriend do) It's quite heavy for the rating list page :/ So the idea was to display the player's highest title only, and player is free to mention his titles in his own informations page.
That's not a completely satisfying solution, I agree...
Dinesh De Silva (2006-04-12 14:15:16)
I have 2 suggestions which might be viable..... *The FICGS decision making committee should make a decision regarding it. OR *Have some sorta poll/voting on FICGS to decide on it.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 14:27:40)
Yes, I agree. We'll talk about that very soon with members joining the council / staff. I just created a mailing list in this aim.
Hannes Rada (2006-04-12 19:15:19)
>> One solution could be to display titles from organizations in separated columns named FICGS, ICCF, FIDE, IECG etc... (as Chessfriend do) It's quite heavy for the rating list page :/ So the idea was to display the player's highest title only, and player is free to mention his titles in his own informations page.
I think that's the best idea. Maybe you can use smaller fonts, so that all information can be displayed on that page.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 19:33:33)
I tried that...
... but I didn't manage to obtain a good result.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-14 04:54:25)
Proposal from a visitor (anonymous)
" >>> Hi Thibault
Congratulations for the launch of your new CC server! I fully support your initiative and hope I will join very soon.
Meanwhile I would like to share some ideas about the Ficgs Titles, which I also fully and unconditionally support.
My proposal is to adopt/or "recognize" any title awarded by FIDE/ICCF/IECG as a FGM, FSIM, FIM, FEM titles. (e.g. not just IECG IM = FIM, but all others too).
That is, a ICCF GM should be named FGM much as a FIDE GM, or IECG GM (or SIM, IM or EM for CC). There shouldn't be special treatment to those players with a title from FIDE/ICCF
Then, to differentiate them, there could be a color scheme or a footnote explaining the procedence of the title: FGM (ICCF) ...FSIM (IECG) and simply FSIM for the truly SIM title obtained at FICGS.
In adition, those players who do not have a title, but have norms either at FIDE/ICCF/IECG (my case ;) either will have them "homologated" (as the titles are) or better, when/if the title has been awarded later, his Ficgs title will be "updated" to the newly awarded title (by FIDE/ICCF/IECG), which must be the highest of them all (as in IECG SIM > ICCF IM > FEM ..etc)
This way FICGS will be the first organization to homologate norms and titles in CC world ;) <<< "
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-14 05:16:26)
What do we call "legitimacy", "official" ? This is quite subjective. In my opinion each organization can create his own titles and choose to recognize titles from other ones. IECG titles are recognized by FICGS, but it's obvious titles from FIDE / ICCF have more value in players mind (legitimacy is not the subject), and players from everywhere could appreciate this distinction. Anyway the FICGS council will discuss about that.
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