Double RR tournaments


Double RR tournaments ?

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Marc Lacrosse    (2007-03-29)
Double RR tournaments ?

Seven players in a tournament is a good number

A larger number would lead to longer waiting time before a tournament actually begins.

But with such a small number of players being white or black against a given opponent may be decisive for tournament win.

So my suggestion : double round robin tournaments with a smaller number of players (five ?).

At five players, completing the full list of players is faster than for a seven-players single RR one and everybody plays 8 games with the advantage that no colour advantage/disadvantage exists against any opponent.

Your opinion ?

Charlie Neil    (2007-03-29 19:32:56)
Double RR tournaments

I prefer single pairings. I know double pairings are the norm in postal clubs. 6 games with 6 others as opposed to 8 games with 4 people can make a difference. I'm sure the waiting time for tournaments to start will drop. But...... What about class tourneys being double paring 5 players and rapid tourneys being 7 players single pairing?

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-29 19:51:24)
Double round-robin tournaments

Single round-robin tournaments with 7 players remains the very best option in my opinion. Shorter waiting time, more opponents... Playing White or Black against a particular opponent have consequences particularly in WCH tournaments, that is a choice but as there's no perfect system, the idea was to organize more cycles (about one every 6 months) for more chances. This way I'm convinced the best player will reach the final quite quickly :)

Double round robin tournaments with five players will be organized for special events (by the way this formula will not decrease the waiting time before a tournament starts... the more games in a tournament, the longer waiting time to begin another one, it doesn't depend on the number of players only)

Finally I think the idea of double round-robin tournaments with 5 players could be a good one for a new category, with a different time control (maybe longer ?!) .. What do you think ?

Nicola Lupinacci    (2007-03-29 21:01:14)
Double round-robin tournaments

I think it is a good idea.
Playing 2 times against an opponent (whit White and Black) is more exiting, specially in WCH tournaments

Marc Lacrosse    (2007-03-29 23:44:48)
Fast double RR at five players

"Finally I think the idea of double round-robin tournaments with 5 players could be a good one for a new category, with a different time control (maybe longer ?!) .. What do you think ?"

Or why not testing it with faster time controls (5 days initial + 1 day per move, maximum accumulated time 20 days) for example.

Sure I would immediately enroll for a 2200+ tournament on this basis.


Strongly limiting maximum accumulated time is also a project I would support wholeheartedly !

Anyone for a test ?

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-30 00:00:10)
Fast double RR at five players

My prediction for such tournaments : More droppers / silent withdrawals (what difference with losing on time then) after the 10 first moves... More unfair rating changes. This is no more correspondence chess IMO.

Marc Lacrosse    (2007-03-30 07:29:57)
why isn't it correspondence ?

"This is no more correspondence chess IMO"

Why so ?

I prefer few games where moves come quickly : I can keep them all in mind and I analyse them almost everyday

That's already the way I actually play : see the state of my clock at the end of my games :-)

At the opposite for what regards myself I feel terribly uncomfortable if I have more than 10-12 games running simultaneously and slowly: when I get a move it's like being in a new game because I cannot remind my former analyses (well they are written down but this is not the same)

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-30 17:17:32)
Correspondence Chess time controls

Correspondence Chess means quite long time controls, traditionnally... You must always have time to analyze well your moves. By the way, rated games with too different time controls would lead to quite strange ratings. 30 days + 1 day per move (60 days limit per move) is fast enough IMO.

I understand your feeling about the simulatneous games :) .. But faster time controls (longer than real-time chess, ie. money tournaments time controls) would lead to many forfeits, quite sure about it.

Charlie Neil    (2007-03-30 21:13:10)
Time Controls

I think Marc has a point about a cummulative time limit in some time controls. in the class tournaments you could amass a huge ammount of time, if you were a fast player, and then use the clock and play really slowly and upset the rythym of your opponent. I like both time controls available, in Class and Rapid events, but if there is a demand for 5days +1day with a maximum of 20 days should we give it a try. as for drop-outs and silent withdrawals.....that's all in the game. (At least I get 1 point!) I am still dubious about double round robin tournaments but maybe you could try them in the Rapid events first. 5 player double pairings say every second tournament, and back to 7 player single pairing in the other......just a suggestion.

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-30 23:23:32)
Time Controls

Reminder : There's also a rule that limit the accumulated time to 100 days !

I think rules and time controls are well balanced... Definitely, a faster time control would bring confusion, this is another game.

There will be (as a test) double round-robin tournaments for the forthcoming "biathlon" chess & Go tournament :)

Jason Repa    (2007-04-07 04:45:25)
Double RR Tournaments

Double RR tournaments are a good idea and makes things fair. It is a big advantage to have the White pieces in a Corr. game.

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-04-07 04:50:03)
Double RR Tournaments

It doesn't influence much the result in class tournaments IMO, it does in WCH tournaments only... Anyway single round-robin is more fun !

Jason Repa    (2007-04-07 05:57:23)
Double RR tournaments

I disagree. I think that it has a very significant influence on the result. If you get Whites against the stronger players and Blacks against the weaker ones, you are getting a big advantage over someone who is not. IMO, it greatly adds to the luck factor. I have the most fun from fair competitions where things are balanced.

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-04-07 06:11:03)
Double RR tournaments

The point is there shouldn't have stronger (I mean really) players in class tournaments... Anyway, several players already asked not to change current formula & single round-robin tournaments.

But I'll organize more special events and / or I'll create a new category using double round-robin.

Scott Prestwood    (2007-04-16 16:30:43)

I would aperciate a DRR here.

Garvin Gray    (2007-05-02 18:52:23)

More drr's please.

Garvin Gray    (2007-05-14 15:23:06)

repeating call for drr's

Garvin Gray    (2007-05-14 15:25:46)

I have had an opponent say to me that if you want to be a certain colour against another opponent who is already in the waiting list for a tournament, then you have to join the tournament in a specific position.

If this is the case, perhaps having drr's will speed up the nomination process because some players will not be picking and choosing which colour to they want against a certain opponent.

They will just enter because they will be both white and black :P

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-05-14 18:48:52)

That's a fine argument ;) .. Indeed, the first player in the waiting list will play White against the second, then colors are alternated. But I can't believe many players take a look at the order before to enter the waiting lists. Anyway, no players enough yet to create a new section for DRR tournaments. Patience !

Nick Burrows    (2007-05-15 00:29:12)

why not randomise the 'drawing of lots' to prevent this happening?

Garvin Gray    (2007-05-15 03:34:24)

Thibault de Vassal- Or I just made the situation worse for srr by pointing this out to a wider audience lol

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-05-15 04:02:55)
Order and colors

Of course not :) .. It is not a secret, it has been discussed before in this forum and it is explained in the rules.

I think we mustn't randomize it, no chancy factor at FICGS :)

Don Groves    (2007-05-15 07:21:17)
Double RR Go tournaments

I'd be open to trying this -- maybe with four players, so it would still be six games.

Thibault de Vassal    (2007-05-15 15:16:41)
Double RR Go tournaments

Does it make sense to organize double round-robin Go tournaments ? .. or is the Komi fair enough ?!