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Game result (chess) C. Koch, 2197 R. Kopytov, 2112 1-0 See game 24555 |
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André Diamant wins Brazilian Chess Championship W. Utesch wins the 2nd FICGS candidates final Veselin Topalov wins Pearl Spring in Nanjing Miroshnichenko wins Ukrainian Championship 2008 Vassily Ivanchuk wins Benidorm tournament Armenia wins gold at 38th Chess Olympiad Deep Fritz 11 is available (Chessbase.com) Dominguez-Perez wins World Blitz Championship Hikaru Nakamura wins Cap d'Agde tournament Viswanathan Anand is FIDE world champion 2008 more chess news... |
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Chi-Min Oh 7d wins London open Lee Sedol 9p beats Kang Dongyun in Korean Myeongin Kong Jie & Lee Sedol will play Samsung Cup final Crazy Stone wins Computer Go UEC Cup in Tokyo Fan Hui 2p wins Paris Meijin title more Go news... |
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There are 19 results for Robin Jean in the games.
Game_20158 Game_27290 Game_27295 Game_27299 Game_27302 Game_27304 Game_27305 Game_27435 Game_27440 Game_27444 Game_27447 Game_27450 Game_27451 Game_27559 Game_27565 Game_27566 Game_27567 Game_27568 Game_27569
There are 137 results for Robin in the forum.
Graham Wyborn (2006-04-25 17:42:52)
Please join:-
I joined this site recently and still have not started a game! Forgive the advert 4 the following games. We need one more player! FICGS__CHESS__CLASS_C__000002 (type : rated round-robin, time : 40 days, increment : 40 days / 10 moves) 7 players, 6 game (1 game against each opponent) elo : 1600-2000 Cridland, Graham (USA) 1700 Grady, Richard (USA) 1654 Höppenstein, Michael (DEU) 1700 Fillion, Nicolas (CAN) 1640 Wyborn, Graham (GBR) 1700 Muller, Henri-Louis (BEL) 1923
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-05 15:19:03)
FICGS world championship
Hello to all.
Please post here all your questions / suggestions about the FICGS world championship rules.
There are many answers to bring yet : about the building of groups, who exactly will play which stage, etc...
It seems that many players like this scheme : knockout / round-robin tournament, that is more fair and much more interesting than a pure round-robin cycle. The final match rules are particularly hard (24 games, 30 days + 1 day / move), but I think it's a good way to make it different and give value to the title. Rules are not far from the old classical world championship, the champion will only play the next final match against the challenger...
FICGS WCH Rules :
http://www.ficgs.com/membership.html#tournament
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-05 16:35:18)
Question...
... from a player :
Who (how many players from each tournament) will play the next stages of the wch ?
Indeed, rules are not clear enough yet, I'll bring changes soon. About "how many players", from ie. a 11 players round-robin tournament : It's stated only one, the player with the highest rating in case of equality. Maybe that's not fair enough, I have to simulate other possibilities.
As June is very near already (too short delay), if there are no players enough at this time, we could pass the first stage but I think it would be better to wait, postponing (one month or two) could be considered...
Jose Carrillo (2006-05-05 18:51:43)
Tournament reccomendation
Try a round robin + Page system playoffs.
Round 1:
Round Robin (as many players as you want)
Final Round:
Page System Playoffs:
Top 4 players in the Round Robin qualify for the quaterfinals:
1st place vs 2nd place
3rd place vs 4th place
Winner of 1st-2nd gets bye in semi-finals, and moves on to the finals.
Loser of 1st-2nd plays in semi-final round
Winner of 3rd-4th playes in semi-final
Loser of 3rd-4th gets eliminated.
Winner of semi-final plays in the final.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-06 16:58:07)
FICGS cup...
Bonjour Sebastien.
Non, pas encore. D'abord pour ne pas multiplier les tournois, au risque de diviser leur popularité. Le problème reste d'imaginer une formule un peu originale, qui ne ressemble pas trop au championnat du monde (donc peut-être éviter le classique cycle de tournois round-robin). A suivre...
(about a FICGS cup, the problem is to imagine an original scheme, that doesn't look like too much to the FICGS world championship... a classical round-robin cycle is maybe 'not enough' to justify this special event)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-09 16:46:25)
Qualifying
I didn't know this system !? Is it really efficient ? How to designate the (4) winners of the round-robin cycle ? Then the semi-final (players bye :/) seems to be a stage more... Means at least 6 months more to end the cycle.
I think the combined round-robin / knockout cycle is fast and fair enough... The 2 first players (designated by the highest ratings in case of equality) of each round-robin tournament will be qualified for the next stage.
The rules for world championship have been updated.
Jose Carrillo (2006-05-11 00:09:47)
Re: Qualifying
The top 4 players in the round robin qualify for the quarterfinals.
The beauty of this system is that the #1 and #2 players in the round robin have a 50% chance of going to the final (they deserve it too! as they finished top 2 in the round robin).
The loser of the 1st-2nd match still has a chance to go to the finals if he wins the semi-finals.
This system prevents lower ranked 3rd and 4th players in the round robin to knock out in one round the top players of the round robin.
If you play the round robin to win (and finish 1st or 2nd) you are rewarded for the finals.
There is still the possibility of the 1st and 2nd place in the round robin to play in the final match.
If you just play to finish 3rd or 4th, you have to fight your way to the final.
There will never be a 3rd vs 4th final match, something very well possible in a knock out tournament.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-12 07:39:04)
Re: Qualifying + Banned players
Hello Jose. You said : "There is still the possibility of the 1st and 2nd place in the round robin to play in the final match."
Actually this is the case, 1st and 2nd qualify for the next stage. How your system works for a 3 stages round-robin tournament cycle ? We can't add 2 extra-stages to designate who qualify from each round-robin tournament...
Hello Trent. There are 3 players who unregistered (not banned), they still appear in the WCH waiting list but they will be automatically removed when building groups.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-12 07:49:43)
Building groups
I suppose the following method is quite reasonable... (if you have a better idea...)
So, building WCH round-robin tournaments groups : Grading all players by elo. Starting from the middle of the list. The first 2 players, one above the middle, one below, play in the first group, the next 2 players in the second group, the next 2 in the third group etc.. Finally, elo average for each group shouldn't be far from each other. What do you think ?
Jose Carrillo (2006-05-13 00:28:45)
Re: Qualifying
In a Knock out you can have 3rd vs 4th in the final. In the Page system you can't.
It's just a matter of whether you want to acknowledge the top players in the round robin.
In the page system ONLY the top four players in the round robin qualify for the playoffs.
Look at the Page system in practice in the Gligoric Cup tournament that we are running in FRCEC at:
http://frcec.chess960.info/GligoricCup.htm
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-13 11:14:02)
Problem is...
... when you have a round-robin cycle ! Anyway, I updated the WCH rules page. This is certainly more fair now, and I think the knock out system will be appreciated.
Thanks for suggestions !
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-15 08:33:32)
Team Championship
In brief : The idea of a team championship is very good, but of course it's too early... Such a championship could be a 2 stages round-robin tournament with teams of 6 or 7 players.
Bonjour Sébastien. Pourquoi discorde ? :) Au contraire...
Pour le moment j'envisageais des matchs par équipe occasionnels (FICGS vs. fédération ou autre serveur de jeu).
Le problème d'un championnat est qu'il soit représentatif, il serait donc souhaitable (dans le cas par pays) de pouvoir monter des équipes complètes (6 ou 7 joueurs) et que les plus forts joueurs trouvent un "intérêt" à défendre leurs couleurs (dépend de la popularité du serveur). L'idée est de toutes manières des plus intéressantes, mais le serveur doit gagner en confiance et en expérience sur la durée, il est encore tôt. Par contre je me demande comment se déroulerait un tel championnat... Un tournoi toutes ronde (round-robin) entre 5 à 9 pays, divisés par groupes, puis une phase finale ?!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-15 11:05:57)
Blitz cup
Yes, time is the main problem. Correspondence chess don't give a large choice, it's difficult to vary rhythms.
10 days + 1 day per 4 moves (6 extra hours / move) could be more fair and we can avoid playoffs with the sudden death (similar to WCH knockout tournament). I like the idea of a violent, rapid and quite unfair (unrated) tournament. It could be quite popular. An advantage in a knockout (with 2 rounds) is that a few games will have to be played : 7 rounds means at most 14 games... If the number of players doesn't fit, the highest rated players could enter at stage 2. The winner could be qualified for the third stage of the WCH round-robin cycle.
But there are potential problems. I don't find a good & fair algorithm to distribute players in a big knockout (chance is not a good idea, I think), and it could be a big work to organize such a tournament (& start games regularly) with 256 players or more...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-15 13:48:57)
Building groups / Qualifying
Update for the method building round-robin tournaments groups :
1) Grading players by rating
2) Filling the groups. If there are 4 groups, #1 -> group 1, #2 -> group 2, #3 -> group 3, #4 -> group 4, #5 -> group 4, #6 -> group 3, #7 -> group 2, #8 -> group 1, #9 -> group 2 and so on... A clearest way.
Finally, I came back to my first idea, in round-robin tournaments only one player should qualify for next stage (in case of equality, the highest rated). Not sure it's less fair, it's more logical and it rewards the rating obtained before... After all, even ICCF WCH final tournament designate a unique winner. Wch page has been updated.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-21 13:02:10)
Teams
Hello Dave. You're probably right...
Feel free to tell me how you imagine this team championship ? How many players by team ? Should the teams have a leader (would designate players, or selected by elo ?) ? Knockout or round-robin cycle ? etc...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-26 11:04:11)
Go (weiqi) world championship
Hello to all.
I've updated the rules for go world championship and go tournaments. Now the results in go tournaments qualify for the wch first stage round-robin tournament. See the rules.
It's more logical, as there's no rating system here for Go, and I think more people will play soon...
Have good games !
Trent Parker (2006-05-30 01:50:25)
Quoting Thibault..... My response
Feel free to tell me how you imagine this team championship ? How many players by team ?
I think only 4 per team would be needed. If there are big countries perhaps they could have multiple teams eg. France A, France B etc etc. Four seems to be the best number. It is used in the OTB Olympiad.
Should the teams have a leader (would designate players, or selected by elo ?) ?
IMHO ELO would be best.
Knockout or round-robin cycle ?
I'd prefer round robin. (although i might not have a team yet :D )
Lionel Vidal (2006-06-02 16:28:11)
Go rules
It's me again :-)
What is the point of the special cases you chose? Why not simply follow the chinese rule? I reread it yesterday and compared to what you say:
- reappearance of the same board position is forbidden (note that should be easy to check by computer with hash keys associated to positions)
- Seki is not really a special case in chinese rule (it is only in territory scoring): you count stones and enclosed vacant points; others vacant points are share equally.
- Winner is determined by comparing one's score to 180 1/2 (half number of points of the board). - Komi: 2 3/4 points are deducted from black's score and added to white's. - After both sides have agreed to end the game (that is after a double pass), if any unsettled positions remain on the board, both sides' stones are treated as alive (that is neat and solve most drawing problems) - Basically a player that makes an illegal move loses his turn (i.e. in effect passes): that includes repeating the same position (why should white win in such a case?).
That sounds much cleaner IMO.
The only possible draw may be some very complex round robin kos, where the position keeps changing, but I guess we can forget it (and it should eventually been resoved by double pass anyway, even if one side is unhappy: see the preceding neat point).
BTW you can probably find the full text on the Web (I have only a paper version from the 1988 official rules of Chinese Weiqi Association).
Thibault de Vassal (2006-06-09 14:34:14)
Email webmaster, 2 players matches
Bonjour Julien, merci :)
My email is displayed (just replace the symbol by @) on the 'About' page.
As I explained in another (old) thread, priorities are to reduce the delay for tournaments to start and to make it as simple as possible. As this server offers all games live, I think it to be 'competition oriented' is the best choice. It would be easy to offer many sorts of tournaments, rated/unrated, different time controls, quad/round-robin/ko etc... but it would loose his interest.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-06-14 13:15:33)
FICGS 1st chess world championship
Hello Heinz-Georg !
It's only a logical extension to the rule that divide the championship in a round-robin and a knockout (for the 8 best rated players) tournament. Of course, there's no rule that fit to everyone, only choices... I hope to make the most balanced ones for the whole site.
By this rule, high rated players have a stage less to play (that they would probably win) and it limits the rating gaps (otherwise it would be more like a cup). In most wch competitions, winners and high rated players/teams are qualified for an advanced stage in the tournament.. A quite common and logical system, used everywhere from football world cup [winner qualified for quarter final] to Roland-Garros [qualifications stage], FIDE world championship etc... 2300 rule is a statistical choice, used in IECG too with more parameters. (nevertheless at IECG high rated players can choose to play the first stage too, but IMO it's quite complicate)
I hope to make it as simple and attractive as possible, believe me ;) Of course (and it is mentioned in the rules- preliminaries) rules could still evolve if improvements are decided by the [future] council.
The only negative point is, indeed, only 2300+ players can play the 1st wch, that is in a way not a "complete" championship. But compared to all other positive points (first, everyone can play now), and as 2nd wch starts at the same time, I think this choice is best.
What I think to do is to send all tournament tables to players who registered on 2006 june 16. If finally there are players who don't want to play it, they'll just have to tell me within days, responding by email. It should avoid any forfeit.
Dorel Oltean (2006-06-15 13:14:09)
Criteria
In round-robin qualifing criteria is first number of points and then rating? In round-robin tournaments one can choose other criteria, after points, like Soneborn, number of wins, .., related to the performance one made. In rating list there are a lot of "provisional" ratings , which will become much too important.
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2006-06-18 14:10:23)
FICGS 1st wch (my last try)
Hello to all,
I think it would be better to start our 1st wch with the regular rules (knock-out and round robin)? Players with rating > 2300 who are not starting in the knock-out can start in the 1st stage of the round robin if they want. If they do not win their group they can neverthless start in the second stage (if their rating is > 2300) of the 1st wch. World champion is the winner of a 24 game knock-out between the winner of the 3rd stage round robin and the 3rd stage knock-out.
What do you think about this?
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2006-06-19 15:45:34)
FICGS 1st wch
Hello Thibault!
It seems that I haven't really understood what will happen on July 1st. You write "Thus 1st wch is a complete cycle". Does this mean, that the knock-out tournaments of the 8 players with the highest established rating also will start (stage 1)? If not it is not a complete cycle according to FICGS (your) rules - in my opinion.
What happens if a player has a rating > 2300 at the beginning of stage 1 and a rating < 2300 at the beginning of stage 2? May he play stage 2?
What happens if a player has a rating < 2300 at the beginning of stage 1 and a rating > 2300 at the beginning of stage 2? May he play stage 2 even if he hasn't won his round robin group? The rating at which time is essential?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-06-19 18:42:16)
FICGS 1st world championship
Hello Heinz-Georg.
While watching the wch waiting list, I realized that there could be an improvement more about this "extra-group". So here is the 1st wch scheme (and next ones, without the special group in the first stage), according to the rules.
Stage 1 :
-- Knockout tournament --
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_QUARTER_FINAL_1__000001
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_QUARTER_FINAL_2__000001
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_QUARTER_FINAL_3__000001
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_QUARTER_FINAL_4__000001
with John Anderson, Petr Makovsky, Daniel Cinca and 5 other players...
-- Round-robin tournaments --
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_STAGE_1_GROUP_1__000001
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_STAGE_1_GROUP_2__000001
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_STAGE_1_GROUP_3__000001
(...)
And at last, a special and one-time group :
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_STAGE_1_GROUP_M__000001
This will be a high rated group, with GM Nigel Davies, GM Amir Bagheri and the ~10 players 2300+ who won't play the knockout tournament according to the rules. The winner of this group will directly qualify for stage 3 round-robin final tournament (a one-time rule). The others can play stage 2 as specified in the rules.
Thus, only the 1st wch will start on july 1st. I think it's fair enough and finally everyone can play...
Stage 2 :
-- Knockout tournament --
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_SEMI_FINAL_1__000001
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_SEMI_FINAL_2__000001
-- Round-robin tournaments --
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_STAGE_2_GROUP_1__000001
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_STAGE_2_GROUP_2__000001
(...)
Stage 3 :
-- Knockout tournament --
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_KNOCKOUT_FINAL__000001
-- Round-robin tournament --
FICGS__CHESS__WCH_ROUND_ROBIN_FINAL__000001
Stage 4 :
-- Candidates match --
FICGS__CHESS__CANDIDATES_FINAL__000001
Stage 5 :
-- Title match --
FICGS__CHESS__WORLD_CHAMPIONSHIP__000001
... if there's a world champion and if he defends his title. Consequently we won't have a stage 5 this time, but as it could happen again in the future...
That's all folks !
Thibault de Vassal (2006-06-27 16:58:03)
FICGS world chess championship
A minor update in the rules that fixes many problems for future wch cycles... Nothing has changed in the rules for the 1st cycle that begins in 4 days, changes only concern next cycles, with the extension of the one-time rule mentioned above.
The equation was :
- No confusion with the cycles when entering the waiting list (2300+ players qualified for 2nd stage of the previous cycle is too confusing).
- Avoiding tournaments with too big rating gaps (and encourage high rated players to participate)
- The formula combining knockout tournament, round-robin cycle (so that everyone can play wch, with no more than 5 stages), and the final 2 players matches in the last stages.
- Making it as understable as possible...
It is now mentioned in the rules that 2300+ players will play 1st stage in high rated groups (ratings superior or equal to 2300). Winners of such groups (same criterias) will be qualified for the 3rd stage round-robin tournament, the others will play 2nd stage.
As all games are played with rapid time controls, a new cycle will probably begin every 6 months !
Thibault de Vassal (2006-07-01 17:20:35)
1st FICGS chess championship started !
Hello to all.
As you may have noticed, 23 new tournaments just started :
http://www.ficgs.com/category__ficgs__chess__wch.html
4 matchs (quarter final) started in the knockout tournament
QF 1 : John Anderson (SM) - Farit Balabaev (GM)
QF 2 : Daniel Cinca - Peter Schuster (SM)
QF 3 : Gilles Hervet (SM) - Gino Figlio (IM)
QF 4 : Petr Makovsky (SM) - John Knudsen (SM)
19 tournaments (groups) started in the round-robin cycle, 17 tournaments with an elo average between 1672 and 1732 (16 tournaments of 17 are in a 32 points range), and 2 "group M" with an elo average about 2390.
All round-robin tournaments are groups of 7 players as it was the best way to make it fair.
I wish you all good games and have fun :)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-07-01 17:44:41)
Format For Championship
Hello John.
After all, if it wasn't unusual, the interest would be lower for sure... :)
So you noticed, the 8 players with the highest established correspondence chess ratings play a pure knockout tournament.
I thought about this format a long time ago (and a long time). Combining a knockout tournament (more "spectacular") and a round-robin cycle (everyone can play, no more than 5 cycles) gather together the advantages of both. It is one of the reasons I made FICGS... I think pure knockout or pure round-robin wch cycle is not efficient enough for chess championships.
The other thing you'll notice in the rules : "The special rule is that in case of equality (4-4), the winner is the player with the strongest tournament entry rating if all games are draw, the player with the lowest tournament entry rating if not all games are draw. The winner is qualified for the next stage."
This rule (in case of equality in the round-robin tournaments, the player with the strongest TER is qualified too) is another way to avoid short draws... It may sound strange at a first sight, but I really think it's fair enough and a good way to find most probably the really strongest players in the last stages. Anyway, it's amazing for sure :)
The FICGS chess wch rules :
http://www.ficgs.com/membership.html#tournament
David Grosdemange (2006-07-02 18:53:50)
qualification for 2nd round ?
how many players will be qualified for the 2nd round of the round robin tournaments ???
that's not written in the rules .....
how many groups of how many players for the 2nd round ??
and 17 is a prime number ... so there won't be the same number of qualified players in each group (or the groups of the 2nd group won't have same number of players) ......
there's a lot of not ansered questions ...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-07-02 19:26:07)
qualification for 2nd round
Bonjour David !
Maybe it wasn't clear enough yet. The winner and only the winner of each tournament will be qualified for the next stage. As there can't be several, only 1 player per group will be qualified.
"Round-robin tournaments are groups of 7, 9, 11 or 13 players. The winner of each group is qualified for the next stage. In case of equality, the player with the strongest tournament entry rating (TER) is qualified for the next stage."
Consequently, there will be at least 17 players from the groups ("at least" : if new groups are created) + players rated >2300 from the high rated groups (but winners).
I expect about 40 to 50 players in stage 2 round-robin tournaments. If the numbers don't fit, there will be an invitation to players 2300+ until it solve the problem.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-07-04 12:17:36)
Symmetrical games
Playing the same opening until move 20 is not a problem IMO, particularly in correspondence chess nowadays...
John, about the format, that's interesting discussing... Why wouldn't it be "normal" in your opinion ? Not usual for sure, as round-robin tournaments are used everywhere in correspondence chess. So it will be a surprise for hardened CC players, but will it be for OTB players ? Why the "match format" couldn't be an acceptable alternative ?
Gino Figlio (2006-07-04 19:08:38)
8-game matches
Just to clarify my position about this format, I think it's just fine if the players are alert and avoid playing symmetrical lines/games. I actually think it's a good idea to play a simultaneous 8-game match to see who's better. It's just a bit different than your normal round-robin tournament, perhaps that makes your site unique!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-07-04 20:15:35)
8-game matches
John... ??? :)
Vladimir Kramnik - Peter Leko (match for WCH classical title)
Vladimir Kramnik - Deep Fritz...
Of course it is desired... Who will remember the names of the players in the last ICCF final tournament ? Even if ICCF doesn't use this format, and (as you say) serious CC players didn't have the opportunity to play such tournament, knockout format is still desired.
My first idea was a pure enormous knockout tournament, but it's obviously not possible (too much rounds, a time problem), that's why I thought about this combined system.
Now look at the chess world : Many players don't understand why FIDE progressively reduces the number of games and time controls in WCH matches. It is the main reason why FIDE world champion title looses value. Not hard / accurate, not spectacular enough !! ..
What many players (me, at least :)) expect is a classical world championship with a big final match. You may have noticed that FICGS champion will have the opportunity to defend his title in a... 24 games match against his challenger... (!!) That's real fight, that's real challenge and that's what I expect to see from a championship, a big opposition between 2 players, and not a round-robin more or less aleatory, with too much names, not understandable for the most.
Now, as we said on TCCMB : FICGS is not "official" matter, chess is for fun here, but chess must be a show and I'm convinced it is relevant in correspondence chess too. We'll see that ;)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-08-04 17:47:56)
WCH tournaments
Hello Marc.
The new group you're playing in (probably the last built before august 15) has a bigger gap ("écart-type") than others.. It was not possible to build it in another way.
The advantage is given by the rating to the 'best' player in all stages (knockout or round-robin), but that's the challenge, and the way of these WCH rules.. (see previous threads about WCH)
However, it's not obvious that top players win all other games... A single draw should decide.
Ryaad Aabid (2006-08-27 14:33:55)
CheckMate = Not lost yet
FICGS__CHESS__CLASS_C__000006 (type : rated round-robin , increment : 40 days / 10 moves) Game 972 Hi! The mentioned game is still at my games list ! Thanks for your attention. Ryaad
Thibault de Vassal (2006-10-12 15:41:13)
FICGS chess championship #1
Pairings for the semi-finals in the first FICGS WCH knockout tournament are known :
GM Farit Balabaev / SM Peter Schuster
-
IM Gino Figlio / SM Petr Makovský
FICGS WCH round-robin tournaments (stage 1) are still running, next round should begin in 2007 january.
This time control, 30 days + 1 day / move, is definitely hard ! .. but definitely challenging :)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-10-25 11:47:22)
Once upon a time in Kalmykia
An interesting interview of FIDE president Kirsan Ilyumzhinov about future of chess, reunification match and other things...
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3448
I can't resist this quote :
Misha Savinov : Bearing in mind successful unification, do you see a chance of Kasparov returning to chess?
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov : In my opinion, Garry will not return. His age will not permit him returning, chess advanced too far. But, of course, we would all be happy if he returns. Actually, I would be happy if not only Kasparov, but also Spassky and Fischer come back. If they do, I am ready to organize a supermatch of FIDE champions. A good idea, by the way! We’ll invite Vassily Vassilyevich Smyslov, Spassky, Fischer, Karpov, Kasparov, Khalifman, Kasimdzhanov, Topalov, Anand, Ponomariov… It is going to be a good supertournament!
Misha Savinov : In Elista?
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov : In Elista. And, probably, it will be 25-minute games, double round-robin. I wonder if Fischer accepts the invitation, what do you think? We will announce the winner a superabsolute champion (laughs)!
Misha Savinov : One can call it an open championship of Kalmykia…
Kirsan Ilyumzhinov : Are you suggesting inviting the Kalmyk champion of 1978? I think I could play 25-minute games…
.....
Thibault de Vassal (2006-10-30 20:20:03)
2nd FICGS chess WCH waiting list is open
Hello to all.
The waiting list for the 2nd FICGS chess world championship is open !
The 2nd stage of the first cycle may begin before the end of 2006. Thus, a new WCH cycle should begin every 6 months !
A small update in the rules : "A player can't be involved in two consecutive knockout tournaments." (of course, the 8 players involved in the quarter finals during the last cycle can enter the round-robin tournaments cycle)
Several logical reasons to this change : More fun & more chances for more high-rated players, decreasing the risk of rating peaks & to see a world champion involved in several knockout tournaments & candidates finals... to play the final match against himself :)
[edit : this rule is no more effective, simulations show the results wouldn't be interesting enough, and as it will be hard to start a new WCH cycle every 6 months, it's simply better to see the highest rated players in the knockout tournament, whatever the consequences]
Good luck & best wishes to all...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-11-19 17:56:13)
Retire and come back.
Hello Dorel.
I'm very sorry about that, but actually Charlie just said everything.
"It is just one of the drawbacks of having a free site on the internet."
This was only an obvious example, but the problem is quite more complex... What about a player who just looses a game on time and continue his other games. Farther, why a player should draw to another one and win to a third. Any result in any round-robin tournament is partly 'aleatory' and depends on many other factors than chess, particularly rules.
It also happens in over the board tournaments to get prizes, it can happen everywhere and at ICCF too... That's why I prefer knockout system. Of course, I'd like to solve all problems, but no rules are perfect. (by the way all suggestions are welcome)
The original post was in 'temps de réflexion' thread :
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=1453
Best wishes.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-11-20 01:03:54)
Re: Perhaps a silly question, but...
Hello Lawrence.
Do you mean "knockout tournament" ?
Reason is simple, it doesn't make sense in correspondence chess, as time controls are too slow and rounds can't be played at the same time. On the contrary, in round-robin tournaments all rounds can be played at the same time...
But knockout system is great and it remains in FICGS chess WCH, which is a multi-stages tournament.
Barry Bell (2006-11-23 06:20:08)
Re:
Hi - There is a section under Help that deals with Computer Play, so to answer your question no computers are not banned. The TD (tournament director) has the ability to create whatever type of tournament he wants as long as he follows A4C rules. The normal tournaments are swiss, the team tournaments are a combination of swiss and round robin. Example: A TD creates a 5 round swiss and states this tournament will be a computer assisted tournament, he states the rules etc etc. as long has it does not break any A4C rules then this type of tournament is accepted. So far we have not had a tournament like this, but provision to allow this type of tournament are already in place.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-12-10 16:20:16)
FIDE's world championship format
Quite good news...
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3530
Ok, we'll have a final match between a challenger and the world champion, this is great !
(the worst is avoided)
In future, the challenger should be designated after a multi-stages round-robin tournaments cycle, then a candidates match (original :))
Will it be enough to attract sponsors... In my opinion the candidates match should be played in 6 games at least, and the knockout tournament should be at least 2 or 3 rounds long. Several round-robin tournaments, this looks like correspondence chess format and this is useful when you have many players and few time. I'm not sure it's a good choice for OTB world chess championship... :/
What do you think ?
Steve Sabean (2006-12-23 16:58:08)
Traxler/Wilkes-Barre
I have heard from many players of a wide range of strength that the Traxler is busted for Black. The trouble is, none of them appear to have proof. A few years ago, I played in a Traxler thematic in IECG. I had a great time, learned a lot, and managed second place overall. My own assessment is: unclear, but Black is probably OK. So, why not have a Traxler thematic tournament here on FICGS, to settle the matter once and for all. :D Maybe it could be a double round robin, to be fair to those who feel that one side or the other has the advantage. I would sign on for such a tournament. Nice Latvian, btw.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-12-24 11:57:24)
Traxler/Wilkes-Barre
Hello Steve.
We had 2 Traxler thematic tournaments already :)
http://www.ficgs.com/tournament_FICGS__CHESS__THEMATIC_TOURNAMENT__000014.html
http://www.ficgs.com/tournament_FICGS__CHESS__THEMATIC_TOURNAMENT__000015.html
Maybe we'll have another one (or double round-robin, why not) :)
Miguel Pires (2006-12-26 21:20:05)
Thematicall Tournaments
Thibault de Vassal i think in the thematical tournaments you should put an double round robin, not only one round. I've played some thematical tournaments and that is what append. Just my opinion Regard's Miguel Pires
Thibault de Vassal (2006-12-26 22:40:28)
Double round robin
In 'theory', that's fully right... I finally chose single round robin because double round robin means 6 games more per tournament, meaning less tournaments, less opponents and so on. As thematic tournaments are friendly - not rated - score is not so important, it's more interesting to play different openings IMO.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-01-03 23:57:33)
Blitz Chess
Hello Charlie, happy new year :)
What do you mean 'real time' games ? What about a time control like 10 moves / 1 hour or 40 moves / 2 hours ?
I'm not sure to understand the point... Swiss system means 6 rounds not played at the same time with complex pairings. Not usual in correspondence chess. Anyway, quite hard to win a round-robin with draws, isn't it :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-01-17 10:58:24)
Knockout tournament
Hello Peter.
It should have started for a while, I agree...
Unfortunately there's one decisive game that lasts in round-robin tournaments.
http://www.ficgs.com/game_1755.html
Knockout tournament games could start anyway, but it's better to start all games at the same time. Patience...
Best wishes.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-01-17 19:01:46)
Wch Stage 2
Hi, Wayne. Good games ;)
Stage 2 should begin in a few days/weeks. Only 1 decisive game to finish before I can make pairings. It will quite look like stage 1 : Round-robin tournaments involving winners of previous stage & semi-final matches in the knockout tournament.
Marc Lacrosse (2007-03-29 19:00:16)
Double RR tournaments ?
Seven players in a tournament is a good number
A larger number would lead to longer waiting time before a tournament actually begins.
But with such a small number of players being white or black against a given opponent may be decisive for tournament win.
So my suggestion : double round robin tournaments with a smaller number of players (five ?).
At five players, completing the full list of players is faster than for a seven-players single RR one and everybody plays 8 games with the advantage that no colour advantage/disadvantage exists against any opponent.
Your opinion ?
Thibault de Vassal (2007-03-29 19:51:24)
Double round-robin tournaments
Single round-robin tournaments with 7 players remains the very best option in my opinion. Shorter waiting time, more opponents... Playing White or Black against a particular opponent have consequences particularly in WCH tournaments, that is a choice but as there's no perfect system, the idea was to organize more cycles (about one every 6 months) for more chances. This way I'm convinced the best player will reach the final quite quickly :)
Double round robin tournaments with five players will be organized for special events (by the way this formula will not decrease the waiting time before a tournament starts... the more games in a tournament, the longer waiting time to begin another one, it doesn't depend on the number of players only)
Finally I think the idea of double round-robin tournaments with 5 players could be a good one for a new category, with a different time control (maybe longer ?!) .. What do you think ?
Nicola Lupinacci (2007-03-29 21:01:14)
Double round-robin tournaments
I think it is a good idea.
Playing 2 times against an opponent (whit White and Black) is more exiting, specially in WCH tournaments
Marc Lacrosse (2007-03-29 23:44:48)
Fast double RR at five players
"Finally I think the idea of double round-robin tournaments with 5 players could be a good one for a new category, with a different time control (maybe longer ?!) .. What do you think ?"
Or why not testing it with faster time controls (5 days initial + 1 day per move, maximum accumulated time 20 days) for example.
Sure I would immediately enroll for a 2200+ tournament on this basis.
:-)
Strongly limiting maximum accumulated time is also a project I would support wholeheartedly !
Anyone for a test ?
Charlie Neil (2007-03-30 21:13:10)
Time Controls
I think Marc has a point about a cummulative time limit in some time controls. in the class tournaments you could amass a huge ammount of time, if you were a fast player, and then use the clock and play really slowly and upset the rythym of your opponent. I like both time controls available, in Class and Rapid events, but if there is a demand for 5days +1day with a maximum of 20 days should we give it a try. as for drop-outs and silent withdrawals.....that's all in the game. (At least I get 1 point!) I am still dubious about double round robin tournaments but maybe you could try them in the Rapid events first. 5 player double pairings say every second tournament, and back to 7 player single pairing in the other......just a suggestion.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-03-30 23:23:32)
Time Controls
Reminder : There's also a rule that limit the accumulated time to 100 days !
I think rules and time controls are well balanced... Definitely, a faster time control would bring confusion, this is another game.
There will be (as a test) double round-robin tournaments for the forthcoming "biathlon" chess & Go tournament :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-04-05 01:58:22)
Big Chess championship
Hello to all.
You may have seen in the chat bar the idea to organize a Big Chess championship at FICGS is in the air.
It could be interesting for several reasons, the first one of course is there's no engine to help players :) .. by the way, it may be really hard to program a good Big Chess engine, it should use some Go concepts combined to a powerful chess engine (with quite different parameters).
Now there are some questions :
- What rules for a Big Chess championship ?
- What about a Big Chess rating ?
In my opinion, there shouldn't be a Big Chess rating. That's a pity, but "simple" chess should remain the main rated game here. Actually, the nature of this game (and time control) makes me think it should remain a friendly game first. However there could a championship for fun...
About the rules for such a championship, it could look like the Go championship : A two-stages tournament, first stage would be a single round-robin tournament with the 7 players who won most Big Chess tournaments (will help to promote tournaments ;)), second stage would be a 6 games match against current champion (if the final score is a draw, the current champion will keep his title).
What do you think ?
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2007-04-06 00:07:27)
BigChess Championship
Ok, but perhaps you can change the condition to select the seven players. Maybe you can give points for place 1 to 4 (1. = 7 pts, 2. = 5 pts, 3. = 3 pts, 4. = 1 point) in every tournament, which wasn't finished at the start of the last Championship. The seven players with the most points are qualified for your single round-robin tournament. Or is this too complicated?
Thibault de Vassal (2007-04-07 04:50:03)
Double RR Tournaments
It doesn't influence much the result in class tournaments IMO, it does in WCH tournaments only... Anyway single round-robin is more fun !
Thibault de Vassal (2007-04-07 06:11:03)
Double RR tournaments
The point is there shouldn't have stronger (I mean really) players in class tournaments... Anyway, several players already asked not to change current formula & single round-robin tournaments.
But I'll organize more special events and / or I'll create a new category using double round-robin.
Volker Koslowski (2007-04-12 22:02:56)
Big Chess Championship
I think that a system based up on points suggested by Heinz-Georg is a good idea for a BC Championship. It is not very complex and maybe we must not wait until 2009 for the first final round robin tournament :)
Nick Burrows (2007-04-23 01:50:31)
my 64 pence worth...
I must admit that i have always disliked the Fide WC rule. It seems to be there to protect the champion rather than creating a level playing field.
The fide WC is also played over 24 games rather than 5 in the groups here.
My humble opinion is that for the WC groups of 11/13 or double round robin, would be fairer and give the skillfull players more oportunity to demonstrate that skill.
It is quite likely that in a group of 5, with just 1 or 2 critical games - the better player could finish even and be eliminated. Fine for class groups, but surely the in a 'World Championships' its worth exploring a little extra detail to find the real deserving winner.
A healthy debate! No matter what, thankyou for the provision of such a great site :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-04-30 22:34:37)
WCH rules
Thanks Sandor & Wolfgang for sharing your views.
As you said, there's no perfect rule for everyone, particularly in a correspondence chess championship, where time is a predominant factor. As for me, I like much FICGS rules so far because of these major points :
1) The best players have the best chances.
2) A new cycle can start every 6 months.
3) There's no external influence in a knockout tournament.
I think the lowest rated player has to prove he's stronger than the highest rated player or champion, so it's coherent in round-robin and knockout tournaments. I particularly like the special rule in the knockout tournament (stage 1, 2 & 3). I'm now playing an exciting quarter final against Wolfgang, that I'm to lose because of this rule - the winner is the player with the strongest TER is all games are draw, the player with the lowest TER if not all games are draw - even if it finishes with a 4-4 score. Simply because I'll lose most probably at least one game. I think it's fair ! .. I knew the rule (of course, I made it :)), I knew I had to draw all games or to win by one point at least. Rules are the game ! .. It's not more unfair than to draw a game with one or two pawns more ;)
However I agree that WCH round-robin tournaments should be 9, 11 or 13 players groups to give more place to chess. I'll take care of this in the next cycle.
Finally, not only rules are to be taken in consideration... To attract players, there must be a real challenge ! .. To take the title to the champion will be really hard for sure :)
Garvin Gray (2007-05-02 18:48:43)
sb tie breaks
I notice that for deciding ties for first in the round robin sections of the wch, the sb tie break, followed by number of wins, has only been mentioned once or twice.
I think it really does deserve more consideration. It is my opinion that the current way of deciding who goes through to the next round- higher rating- is patently unfair. While I understand some of the arguments for (higher rating), I still think it is unfair to reward someone for something they did outside of the round robin group play.
In their rr group, they were not good enough to achieve first place on their own, so a player should not advance based on results achieved outside of that rr group.
In my opinion the tie break order should be: 1) Berger tie break 2) Total number of wins in the group 3) Result between the two or more players.
I also noticed that a few people have mentioned that more players are required in each rr group. I certainly agree with this.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-05-02 19:10:02)
sb tie breaks
... it will be discussed every 6 months for sure ;)
While writing WCH rules, the main goal was not only (or firstly) to make it fair. It should be a spectacular and exciting challenge first ! .. Nothing was more unfair than the old FIDE WCH cycle and that was great. Once more these rules have not be designed to 'choose' the best player in the tournament, but more probably the best player. Another advantage of rating preference is you know the challenge when each group starts, result is not decided during the tournament, according to the games of your opponents with the same number of points.
At last, I just wanted to make it different. So you may play in the ICCF & IECG world championship tournaments if you prefer the classical round-robin system :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-05-03 01:17:03)
sb tie breaks
"The higher rated player in a group is not always the best player"... I agree of course, no rule can say surely who is the best player at a particular moment or period (in this case I meant during a quite long period), it's a question of probability only !
Ok... In my opinion these WCH rules are great, different and shouldn't be changed. However there should be a Cup multi-stage tournament with different rules to give equal chances to everyone, also a new section for double round-robin tournaments. I must 'finish to' launch money tournaments, attract more players after that, then it could be done...
Thibault de Vassal (2007-05-03 02:13:44)
Go championship cycle
1st FICGS go WCH will start in a few months, but I'm still not really satisfied with current rules :
"FICGS world Go championship is first a round-robin tournament, involving 11 players including the 6 players who won or lead most Go tournaments started during the previous year and the 5 highest rated players, among players who entered the waiting list. If more than 2 players win (or lead) a tournament with equal score, no win is granted. A win in a "pro" tournament is worth 9 "kyu" wins. A win in a "dan" tournament is worth 3 "kyu" wins. In case of equality, the next places will be taken in account.
The winner of this tournament is the challenger for FICGS world champion title. In case of equality, the winner is the player with the highest tournament entry rating (TER), If this rule can't designate a unique challenger, current ratings will be considered. If current world champion defends his title, they will play a 6 games match. In case of equality (3-3), the winner is the former world champion.
All games are played in 30 days + 1 day / move. Komi is 7.5 points. Rules for Go are chinese rules, as defined by the Chinese Weiqi Association."
Not clear enough, quite complicate and strange, even if I like the idea of a 2-stages tournament (round-robin tournament then challenger vs. champion match) and to give the opportunity to the best rated Go players to enter it without playing tournaments before... Other questions, double round-robin or not, should it be open to all players.. Feel free to suggest your ideas for a nice Go WCH cycle ! :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-05-05 15:43:46)
Go championship cycle
Finally ratings could be enough to give the best chances to the best players... Consequently the 9 highest rated players who entered the waiting list would play the round-robin tournament. That's a pity everyone can't play with this formula, but anyway chances to see 'surprises' is much lower in Go than in correspondence chess.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-05-15 15:16:41)
Double RR Go tournaments
Does it make sense to organize double round-robin Go tournaments ? .. or is the Komi fair enough ?!
Marc Lacrosse (2007-05-22 22:20:20)
Any 2200+ for a rapid double round ?
Hi all, hi Thibault
Would you agree for a five players rated double round robin tournament at rapid timing (30 days + 1 day per move) if four other 2200+ players declare in this thread that they are ready to join ?
I am ready to play...
Marc
Thibault de Vassal (2007-05-22 22:58:02)
Rapid double round-robin
Hello Marc.
Of course, why not for special tournaments like this one...
Svante Carl von Erichsen (2007-06-01 12:26:32)
Go championship
I think that the current rules are quite good. For the current user base, 9 players round robin is enough.
If the user base gets bigger and stronger, you could introduce preliminary stages. Example: sort all players who entered the waiting list by rating, then the final league consists of the 5 strongest players plus 4 players who placed first in the preliminary (which might be a knockout, or another league).
One thing I would change in the current system: the usual custom for multi-game matches between two players is to determine colours randomly for the first game, then alternate. If an uneven number of games is played, then in the last game, colours are chosen randomly again.
As I interpret the rules in that way that all five final games are played simultaneously, I would propose that one of those games is played with random colours.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-06-01 17:56:58)
Final match
Hello Svante Carl, thanks for sharing your views !
I agree about the round-robin tournament, it could evolve according to the rating list...
About the final match, I have good reasons for not introducing any chancy factor in tournaments (anyway I think it's better this way), I finally agreed with players about the 5-games match but it was hard for me to consider this non symmetrical schedule... Making it different is not a problem IMO, a (2xn)-games final match with equality favourable to former champion - like FICGS chess WCH - was ok for me but 6 games may be too few, giving a too big advantage to the former winner of the tournament.
Anyway, there will be no final match in this 1st championship, it will be probably discussed again & again :)
Garvin Gray (2007-06-02 06:42:49)
Wch 3 rules
Time for a new thread since start of a new tournament.
I would like to see each round robin group have more people in each group. This way there is less chance of two or more people tying for first and having to be tie-breaked by TER.
Also it means more games, which I assume is a good thing :)
Wolfgang Utesch (2007-06-14 10:04:00)
Figlio - Schuster
Before champion a last match has to be played between the final winner of this KO match and the over all winner of the round robin tounaments.
Hannes Rada (2007-06-14 23:18:43)
Figlio - Schuster
Oh, Thank you Wolfgang. Very complicated ... :-) Or let's say unusual.. . I would prefer a 3 stage round robin tournament based on the famous swiss-system. For me that seems to be a more fair competition.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-06-16 14:05:02)
WCH rules
Hello Hannes.
You're right, undoubtly ! .. Also, a new cycle every 6 months is a lot. But I can't see any interest to make one more round-robin cycle championship. This format is interesting & very challenging IMO, maybe it can be improved yet but let's see in a few years :) .. 'Think different'
Viktor Savinov (2007-06-19 15:34:04)
GM_FICGS__CHESS__RAPID
GM_FICGS__CHESS__RAPID (type : rated round-robin, time : 30 days, increment : 1 day / move) entry fee : 100 , prize : 894 Let's play in such structure: Savinov, Viktor; Atalik, Suat; Balabaev, Farit; Figlio, Gino; Sumets, Andrey; de Vassal, Thibault; Vovk, Andrey; Schuster, Peter; +1
Thibault de Vassal (2007-06-20 22:54:33)
Internet chess
Well, the discussion with Tryfon Gavriel con