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Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-08 13:10:47)
Things to be implemented...
Hello to all... and thank you for your confidence in this very new server (when no game started yet ! maybe today...)
I expected a high average rating, but not so much :)
The last update provoked the first bug -> in this forum. Sorry to all who tried to post here. It should work now.
Here are things to be implemented in the future :
- Vacations (until, time limit by move is 2 months)
- Conditional moves
- A better interface for the forum...
Don't hesitate if you have ideas to improve the website !
Best wishes.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-08 13:37:17)
Class tournaments overlap
Hello Hannes. Thank you for support :)
The overlap offers the possibility for players to register to several class tournaments, at least to choose. I think it won't be used a lot, but it could be something more for the stronger players who will choose to register to "under-class" tournament as well as other players who may play sometimes with stronger players.
Feel free to tell me what you think.
Thibault
Hannes Rada (2006-04-08 13:58:53)
Elo Overlap
Thibaut, I think this "feature" is okay. I just was a little bit confused about it and could not decide which tournament to choose.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-08 14:49:23)
FICGS titles
As you may have read on TCCMB forum, ICCF officials reacted when they learnt about FICGS titles. My idea was it first to be informative (titles from ICCF/IECG/FIDE), because I think players like to know who they play against, particularly if their opponents are titled. It seems obvious to me that FICGS titles are FICGS ones, not "official", not ICCF or FIDE.. even if words are quite the same (titles are FICGS IM, not IM).
I would like to know what you think about that. Do you think FICGS titles should be renamed (ie. FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM), or do you think there's no possible confusion between FIDE/ICCF/IECG/FICGS titles ? This is an interesting debate I invite you to follow :
http://pub11.bravenet.com/forum/924995304/fetch/552912/
Thank you for your advices.
Hannes Rada (2006-04-08 19:06:49)
Vacations
The most important issue to be implemented is imho the vacation. I think otherwise many potential players (me included) will be prevented from joining a tournament. How many days a year would you allow ?
Hannes Rada (2006-04-08 19:12:59)
Titles
I thing titles provide an incentive for players and their wording is not really important. To avoid potential conflicts with other bureaucratic organisations you should maybe rename them to FEM, FIM, FSIM, FGM ...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-08 19:18:26)
Vacations
I think 40 days for vacations is right. What do you think about ? (it may depend on tournament category, ie. rapid tournament shouldn't allow vacations)
Hannes Rada (2006-04-08 19:32:44)
vacations
40 days is fine for me. I've 31 days leave in a year and I ususaly use them all for travelling and visiting foreign countries. I had no experience with rapid tournaments on the cfc - server. However they also allowed 40 days in a year. Maybe otherwise many player would not participate. I for one had to go several times on business trips for a few days and in this case it would risk losing games in a rapid tournament if there is no possibility for taking leave.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-09 10:16:50)
Duplication
Hello Marc ! I thought players (I first) precisely would appreciate something different and this totally "live" concept. I don't think many correspondence chess players will try to cheat this way... Furthermore, I already did implement processes to DETECT 'double' games.. and rules clearly forbid these methods.
Per Lea (2006-04-09 21:51:02)
Suggested improvement
When clicking on "My games", only a list with one line representing each game should appear (as on ICCF, Chessfriend and I think all other servers I have encountered - and there are quite a few!) With many games running, a short overview is sufficient. Now I have to scroll down to a particular game, even though I only have 6 games running. I definitely think you should look to ICCF and Chessfriend to get some good ideas in this respect.
Per Lea (2006-04-10 09:52:36)
Games appearing in short list
Thanx for obeying my wish - now the "My games" list is much easier to read. But why can't I just click on one of the games in this list when I want to make a move? If you prefer, you could put a symbol (such as the white or black rook) next to the games where it is my move, to make it easier to see where it is my move. Then there is really no need to list the games (where it is my move) under "My messages" as well.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-11 05:18:57)
FICGS council / staff
About job specification, as I said, I would like FICGS to be a place that fits to the most, and not under a dictatorship (even mine :)), so the idea to create a council with all members who want to be part of it, voting all decisions relating server rules, tournaments, wch cycles, titles... (or simply opinion poll on the website ? or both...)
The FICGS staff should be able to manage the server (registering new members, moderating the forum, referees...) Nothing difficult, just needs motivation. Most important is that it could completely work without me. Of course, if developers want to help, making a drag & drop interface ie. or improving whatelse..) About "go", we'll see later, Hannes :) (it's a fine game, you should learn !)
Anyway I'll send an email to all players responding in this thread soon. We will discuss about that.
Best wishes & thank you !
Hannes Rada (2006-04-11 10:25:04)
Software ?
Unfortunately there is no download possibility. Which software are you using ? In case of Chessbase the following trick should work: Mark all moves of the game - rightclick and "say" "copy". In ChessBase "say" "paste" and the game should appear at your virtual board. hannes
Marc Lacrosse (2006-04-11 10:36:45)
Computer accounts ?
Just an idea : as computer use is explicitly allowed on FICGS, it could be nice to offer chess program authors the possibility to have a "semi-official" account for their latest beta babies on FICGS.
Some of them would surely like the idea of having quite a tough test against good correspondence players ...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-11 13:23:44)
CC players vs. Computers
Hello Marc, the idea is good for sure, but I doubt developers would want to see their "beta babies" to achieve a 2000 ELO rating with pain :) If matches like CC GM - Engines are quite balanced, so would be a CC 1800 - Engines one... Anyway, if you know developers interested, we could envisage something in this way...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-11 13:28:13)
Download
Hello Karlheinz & Hannes.
I'll arrange that. But indeed that's the way I developed the "Search games" page. Copy/Paste PGN games should work. (but it may become too big later to display all games in one page)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-11 14:54:36)
FICGS titles
Hello to all.
I would like to have players opinion !
As you may have noticed, I already changed FICGS titles to FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM. (not titles obtained elsewhere) Do you agree with titles appearing this way ?
I thought several other ways : EFM, IFM, SFM, GFM, or only to mention norms obtained ! (not titles) At last, of course, we can suppress definitely titles from FICGS, a bad idea in my opinion. What do you think about that ?
Thank you in advance for your responses.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-11 18:33:13)
Bug fixed...
Many improvements in the send move process... It should not be possible anymore to make a wrong move. Stalemate detection is implemented. In checkmate case, nothing else should be possible than resigning. Thanks for your feedback.
Dinesh De Silva (2006-04-12 07:24:22)
TITLES
I think the answer is obvious. FICGS titles should be named FICGS EM, FICGS IM etc, so that it's clear from where the titles are got from. By putting the organization's name in front of the title this way, I don't see any problems. I think the majority are bound to agree, and there won't be any sorta arguments with other organizations. After all, the world is a very big place.... there's enough room for everybody! I find FICGS a very friendly place. Also, organizations like IECG, ICCF, LIAPE etc. are very hardworking, dedicated organizations too, and I enjoy playing in them too. My thanks to you all.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 09:14:24)
Tournament formulas
Hello to all.
What do you think about the idea to create a SLOW tournament category ? Clocks could be 60 days + 10 days / move or 100 days + 100 days / 10 moves (very slow) ?
Any idea or opinion ?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 09:53:48)
Rapid tournaments
Formula for rapid tournaments is 30 days (because players could be in vacation while the tournament starts) + 1 day / move
Marc Lacrosse (2006-04-12 09:57:10)
Tournament formulas : not too many .
Personally I do prefer playing a small number of games simultaneously at a relatively rapid pace instead of a larger number at slower pace.
But I can understand that some prefer the opposite. So why not.
One caveat : I think you should wait a little bit before multiplying categories.
As long as we are not a larger number of active players there is a risk that there will be a small number of players waiting for long before a sufficient number of players will join for starting a tournament in a given category.
Marc
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 12:46:22)
FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM
About titles obtained on FICGS, it would be the same ones. We have choice : We could add a special letter, from the organization the title comes from (very confusing I think : IIM.. IECG / ICCF) .. or consider EM, IM, SM, GM are "official" titles, and FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM are the other ones, including FICGS ones... Probably not perfect. Any idea ?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-12 14:02:49)
Solution...
One solution could be to display titles from organizations in separated columns named FICGS, ICCF, FIDE, IECG etc... (as Chessfriend do) It's quite heavy for the rating list page :/ So the idea was to display the player's highest title only, and player is free to mention his titles in his own informations page.
That's not a completely satisfying solution, I agree...
Dinesh De Silva (2006-04-12 14:15:16)
Solution...
I have 2 suggestions which might be viable..... *The FICGS decision making committee should make a decision regarding it. OR *Have some sorta poll/voting on FICGS to decide on it.
Hannes Rada (2006-04-12 19:15:19)
Titles
>> One solution could be to display titles from organizations in separated columns named FICGS, ICCF, FIDE, IECG etc... (as Chessfriend do) It's quite heavy for the rating list page :/ So the idea was to display the player's highest title only, and player is free to mention his titles in his own informations page.
I think that's the best idea. Maybe you can use smaller fonts, so that all information can be displayed on that page.
Paul-Iosif Guralivu (2006-04-13 15:19:03)
New Titles!
To make FICGS more atractive and original I propose to make new titles for every category of players: Candidate for Master(FCM) - 2000-2200 First category (FI) - 1800-2000 Secound category (FII) - 1200-1800 Third category (FIII) - 800-1200 Every of this category could be obtain if a player plays more than 12 games in tournaments with tha same ELO. What do you think about it ? P.S.:Don't be mad on me...It's just a proposition.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-13 15:46:55)
New Titles
Hello Paul-Iosif.
Interesting new idea. In my opinion, there are too many titles & titled players already from official & "non-official" organizations. I think this is a mistake from FIDE / ICCF they couldn't remedy anymore. Titles from other organizations and particularly IECG are not really a problem "more", cause they are hard to achieve (rare), but I don't think this could be so attractive for players. To get a title is a reward itself. Maybe even EM title shouldn't exist.
But I think that ie. a KM title (over GM) could be an interesting idea !
Anyway, I'm ok with the commission idea, we'll vote that too.
Another interesting & controversial idea is (as IECG do) titles not to be awarded for life ! If player's rating decrease, he could lost his title... but I don't think this is very fair.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-13 16:05:35)
I agree...
... that would be unfair.
About players that will never achieve a title, I think most important is to stimulate motivation, and titles (I think) are awarded in this way. Don't you think categories FI, FII, FIII are in a way the rating itself ?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-14 04:54:25)
Proposal from a visitor (anonymous)
" >>> Hi Thibault
Congratulations for the launch of your new CC server! I fully support your initiative and hope I will join very soon.
Meanwhile I would like to share some ideas about the Ficgs Titles, which I also fully and unconditionally support.
My proposal is to adopt/or "recognize" any title awarded by FIDE/ICCF/IECG as a FGM, FSIM, FIM, FEM titles. (e.g. not just IECG IM = FIM, but all others too).
That is, a ICCF GM should be named FGM much as a FIDE GM, or IECG GM (or SIM, IM or EM for CC). There shouldn't be special treatment to those players with a title from FIDE/ICCF
Then, to differentiate them, there could be a color scheme or a footnote explaining the procedence of the title: FGM (ICCF) ...FSIM (IECG) and simply FSIM for the truly SIM title obtained at FICGS.
In adition, those players who do not have a title, but have norms either at FIDE/ICCF/IECG (my case ;) either will have them "homologated" (as the titles are) or better, when/if the title has been awarded later, his Ficgs title will be "updated" to the newly awarded title (by FIDE/ICCF/IECG), which must be the highest of them all (as in IECG SIM > ICCF IM > FEM ..etc)
This way FICGS will be the first organization to homologate norms and titles in CC world ;) <<< "
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-14 05:16:26)
re: Proposal
What do we call "legitimacy", "official" ? This is quite subjective. In my opinion each organization can create his own titles and choose to recognize titles from other ones. IECG titles are recognized by FICGS, but it's obvious titles from FIDE / ICCF have more value in players mind (legitimacy is not the subject), and players from everywhere could appreciate this distinction. Anyway the FICGS council will discuss about that.
Håkon Anda (2006-04-14 16:52:42)
Some wishes
I think this server works great after so short time online. However I think there are som possible improvements that could be done: 1. Option that can disable e-mail notification of one own moves. 2. It should be possible to take leave. 3. A better list of our own games, like when last move was done, reflection time left and so on. 4. A flag for every player that shows the nationality and other information that could be found in the rating list. Best regards, Håkon Anda
Per Lea (2006-04-14 23:43:10)
Coordinates
I didn't even notice that there were no coordinates until I read your posting! If you move directly on the screen, this should be no problem. I do not see any reason to maintain the option of entering your move by writing it in English notation instead.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-15 03:16:38)
English PGN notation
Writing the move may be a bit faster than clicks. (2 steps instead of 3)
About the last move, you're right Walter. Maybe it should be only an option, I'm not sure all players would appreciate a special color for the last piece moved. (?)
Karlheinz Weber (2006-04-15 14:07:03)
Coordinates
Coordinates would be fine! K.Weber
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2006-04-15 16:46:29)
Vacation
I agree with Hannes. And I would like to take a leave in one or another but not necessarily in all of my tournaments.
Glen D. Shields (2006-04-15 19:01:14)
Extend Timeout
I agree great server. The board definiely would be better with coordinates. Is there a way to extend the timeout time? Or an option to save one's login information so you don't have to input name and password after being tossed? Thanks!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-16 09:25:33)
Implemented & vacation
Hello to all.
Cookies, last move & board coordinates have been implemented. Thanks !
Still thinking about vacation, but it doesn't seem obvious to me that it is essential. There's objectively no difference between "vacation" & time for move... Rules on other servers are often a bit hard and to manage vacations is something more to do (and not so easy when you have few time). I would prefer not to hurry players and allow a 2 months time limit per move (= 1 month + 1 month leave by default) Quite more flexible. (!?)
Hannes Rada (2006-04-16 09:52:16)
time and vacation
>There's objectively no difference >between "vacation" & time for move... >Rules on other servers There is a difference. If the player does not have the time on the clock, because he is involved in many tournaments .... I think we should start a poll about this issue.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-16 10:12:09)
Right
You're right, Hannes. That's different. In a way, we should call this "reserve" more than "vacation". So it only depends on rules -> depends on council. Not sure it is an obvious thing but anyway, we'll vote that too very soon.
Glen D. Shields (2006-04-16 12:33:44)
Comparisons
Hello Thibault - first thanks for creating this server. I'm happy to see so many members joined up so quickly. I just started on Ortwin's server (IECG) yesterday. Too early to compare, though one initial item I like better on Ortwin's server is that I can easily change board colors and chess pieces there. Would like the board a little larger (or maybe be adjustable) on both sites. Easier for old eyes! Two items I like much better here than at ICCF are the time rules (ICCF's are much too long) and the tournament sign-up procedure. I can not sign up for an ICCF tournament on-line. I have to do so by printing a form and mailing a check to my NF. A old process for a modern method of play!
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2006-04-16 15:54:24)
No need to receive his own moves?
Dear Thibault, sorry but I would like to receive my move as mail, especially if I add a message to my move. And in the case of a server-crash it could be helpful to have the total protocol of my games on my computer. Don't you think so?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-16 18:33:01)
Adjudication
Déjà ? :)
So, about games "obviously lost" (somewhat subjective), the council may decide special rules so that referees can grant games that drag out. What do you think is best ? That's a recurrent problem in correspondence chess, and an original policy could make the rating more accurate, as some players may finish "good games" very faster than others... Quite subjective indeed, and not obvious. Where's the limit ? Maybe correspondence chess players should first accept this idea that their "won" games may finish much later...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-17 09:23:44)
Fraudulent ?
I'm not sure.. is really an "automatic player" fraudulent ? Many players are centaurs (human + computer). The decision to let an engine play would be a human one after all.. Anyway, a script player doesn't seem so easy to make. (and for what ?)
Paul-Iosif Guralivu (2006-04-17 18:31:35)
What about my name!
My name in english would be translated like this: Talkative Paul-Joseph... If I were a american, would you let me join ?
Glen D. Shields (2006-04-17 19:01:10)
Thanks for the Comments Guys
Dinesh - since computer use is allowed I have no problem if someone uses a "script" to automate moves. I don't think that would be fradulent. Actually I think it would be clever :) The point I was trying to ask is anyone concerned (besides me) that we created a chess medium (server chess) where it's so easy to make moves that the games move too fast? I dread the start of a new section, particularly large sections with 10+ players. It's impossible to keep one's inbox empty for even a minute. I know I should show more discipline and walk away, but it's almost like an illness "just one more move then I'll stop" and I don't! One practice I've been using lately is to make a move in a notebook and sit on the move for a day or two before sending it. That helps slow things down. I wonder if a delay send option on the server would make any sense? One could make a move and then click a delay send button for 24 or 48 hours. One would be charged time during the delay, but it would automate the slow down and make tournament startups a little less hectic. Maybe I'm the only one who sees this as an issue> If so, then label this just one crazy man's thoughts :)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-18 00:34:26)
About vacation...
Don't you think it would be more logical to allow 40 (for example) days of vacation per year and not per game ? Vacation would stop the clock for all games of the player. Seems to look like "vacation" more than a "reservoir" that doesn't really have to exist ?!
Glen D. Shields (2006-04-18 21:39:57)
A Suggestion
Thibault my e-mail notification will be turned off :)
I'd encourage you to re-consider your 60 day ruling. I can foresee individuals getting late in a game and accumulating hundreds of reflection days. Not many, but a few players could go 59 days per move 2 or 3 times in a row just to irritate their opponent. Not everyone is a "good sport" unfortunately :(
IECG does it right by limiting time to 30 days max per move. You violate the limit once, game is over no questions asked. ICCF does it half right and half wrong. They set the limit at 40 days, but then make the person waiting beg the TD to do something. If the TD refuses to enforce the rule, the violating player can stall as long as he wants :(
This is your chance to pick and chose from the best things done in other organizations. Either set a limit on the number of accumulated days so it doesn't go into the hundreds or set a reasonable limit on the number of days per move. Just don't let both become large. Also don't be wishy washy on the limit. Set a limit and enforce it, no questions asked. No hard reasonable limit and too many accumulated days is an infrequent, but irritating problem in the making. There won't be many, but sadly there will be those few "bad losers" who think it's "cute" to string their opponents along. Don't let that happen at FICGS!
Just my two cents :)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-18 23:04:48)
Interesting...
Glen, that's a fine suggestion !
We could probably improve the time rules, indeed.
Maybe a 100 days accumulated time limit would be appreciated ? What do think the players ?
Elmer Valderrama (2006-04-18 23:15:46)
30 d max
I agree with Glen, 'resign' is the hardest word, and some prefer the server (or the time control rules) _gradually_ pronounce it.. 30 days max, with time doubled at move 10th + optional leave of 30 days would be more than reasonable to me.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-20 11:59:21)
Cheating / Forfeiting
Hello to all.
The website detected 2 'probable' cheaters registered (one playing), with a 1400 rating.
Of course, FICGS will face problems encountered by all correspondence chess sites but I think it will be minimal here, as I'm enforcing detection rules so that aliases couldn't register anymore.
Important : Games forfeited without a valid explanation won't be rated, and the account for the player closed. A player who may forfeit should send an email with explanation to : ficgs (at) ficgs.com
Thanks.
Elmer Valderrama (2006-04-20 14:52:47)
search by ECO code
Wonderful feature to have all on-going games available just one click away (an old request to Reimund @chessfriend). Even more interesting to be able to search games by player name. Now would it be too much to ask for a search by ECO? --similar games would be identified in a second, a good thing; and information for choosing different variations would be available..
Marc Lacrosse (2006-04-21 03:40:08)
The opening of the future ?!
Wow!
So 8 out of more than 300 games so far have started with 1.Nc3 : 2.3% is a good start ...
With only 4 games more, 1.Nc3 would catch 1.c4 (12 games so far) ...
...nice !
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-22 05:39:05)
Not sure...
Might be useful, right... But what to do if people's schedules change once the games started ? I made this way to reduce forfeits, players shouldn't enter waiting list if they are not sure to play the games until the end... Feel free to tell me what you think about that.
Elmer Valderrama (2006-04-22 15:44:16)
bug?
Dear Thibault On-going game 49 has "6.Nb5" although both knights (from c3 and d4) could move to b5 (correct is either 6.Ncb5 or 6.Ndb5)
Anyway, the interface (or the player Ghisi) moved the knight from c3 (more obvious was to move the knight from d4, according to theory at least) and, as a result, the move 7...e5 won a piece..(can't see a post from the concerned players so it could have been played as intended, but the "Nb5" needs correction for sure)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-23 06:15:48)
Hmm...
That's a point. But live running games are much more interesting to follow. Maybe this feature should be renamed "spectacular game".. Too long for the menu :)
Karlheinz Weber (2006-04-23 11:13:11)
Download of games
I still think the possibility to download my own tournament, or at least my own games in pgn files would be very, very helpfull. For example many chessplayers handle their games with ChessBase. Ciao! Karlheinz
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-23 17:03:16)
Spanish / Deutsch (help...)
Hello to all.
As you can see, the home page is now "translated" (thanks babelfish :)) in 4 languages... It would be helpful if players speaking well spanish and deutsch can tell me about the faults... Please email me : info (at) ficgs.com
Thanks in advance :)
Michael Höppenstein (2006-04-24 15:45:19)
Referee - Checkmate
That's not quite all right, I think. In case a game is won by checkmate, the game should be over - that is: without referee and without me waiting for my opponent losing on time. Would you consider changing this? Just a suggestions.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-24 16:11:48)
Italian... (and other languages)
Of course ! (...would you help me ? :))
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-24 18:43:59)
It was precisely one...
... of these two games ! The player wanted to resign but he couldn't "because" he was checkmated. The bug has been fixed today.
Michael Aigner (2006-04-24 20:20:09)
Spanish / Deutsch (help....)
Hello Thibault! I had a look for the german parts of the website and I have unfortunately to say the babelfish german is horrible. You can (if you like) send me all the english text you like to have in german and I will translate it for you. michael10013@lycos.com Give me please an mail adress where I schould send the translation to. Have a nice day Michael
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-24 21:07:06)
e7-e5
This bug is fixed and shouldn't happen once more.
Graham Cridland (2006-04-25 16:02:04)
Weird
I'd suggest allowing one player to use them even if the opponent has them turned off, as otherwise it could get confusing... people might not ralize their move hadn't been executed.
Graham Cridland (2006-04-25 17:22:16)
Hmm.
Well, I see your point (I have an opponent like that) but what you're really objecting to is their failure to use their time, not conditional moves (or even fritz). And I can't imagine that forcing people to use their time will be popular. Just have to NOT send the move back right away, sit down at the board, and figure out where Fritz goes wrong. Our German friend isn't all knowing (especially at the 14-16 ply people only give him much of the time). So you should generally win those games.
Graham Wyborn (2006-04-25 23:29:20)
Yawn........... Yawn............Yawn
Still no game. Anyone know the song, "Why are we waiting". As 6 out of the 7 have joined, could not some of the games start. We are all not going to this opponent! Just a thought......
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-25 23:47:35)
Waiting lists / Delay
Usually, the delay before a tournament start is at least one week in other big organizations... Be patient, tournaments will start more often as time passes and players join us. (the next month could be "surprising") Anyway this is correspondence chess after all :)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-28 02:06:16)
Next month...
... will be much more interesting ! I've worked to make FICGS appear in good places on search engines and link directories. The results should happen in two weeks from now.
Anyway, that was a quite good start (actually the most difficult for a chess server), so... many thanks to you all :)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-01 17:09:08)
Okay.
It should work now. I have an update more to do for ambiguous moves. Thanks for feedback.
David Angeli (2006-05-01 18:42:19)
Tournament class
Hi thibault About the "tounaments" topic (je sais pas comment on dit rubrique en anglois ! ;o) ) One thing not very clear for a newcomer like me is the difference between the different classes of tournaments : A, M, etc...it is certainly explained somewhere but i'm a bit lazy and it would be easier if it was explained on the same page . Thanks to your site i'm back to correspondence chess :)
Nicolas Fillion (2006-05-02 20:06:09)
Printable game list
Hi, I'd like to know if there's an option to have a printable list of the moves of the games we're playing. I don't see any option... If not, I'd like to suggest to add such an option to the webmaster! The site is undoubtly great, but this kind of option would surely make it even greater! Thanks
Jose Carrillo (2006-05-03 00:19:03)
Repetition???
Why? It defeats the purpose of Chess960. Everyone in the tournament is just playing a Chess960 game, not the same opening position. Using the same opening position simulates a regular chess tournament (i.e. repetition). Anyway, at least it should be an option to have differnt opening position per game in the same tournament. It's more in line with the "purpose" of Fischerandom Chess.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-03 14:15:54)
Chess 4000 ?
About Fischer Random Chess / Chess 960, the king' start position must be between the rooks to allow this strange castling. Why ?! Wasn't it ok to forbid this unusual (non-sense) move in these other cases... The number of positions should increase a lot. Does anyone knows the number of positions resulting ?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-05 16:35:18)
Question...
... from a player :
Who (how many players from each tournament) will play the next stages of the wch ?
Indeed, rules are not clear enough yet, I'll bring changes soon. About "how many players", from ie. a 11 players round-robin tournament : It's stated only one, the player with the highest rating in case of equality. Maybe that's not fair enough, I have to simulate other possibilities.
As June is very near already (too short delay), if there are no players enough at this time, we could pass the first stage but I think it would be better to wait, postponing (one month or two) could be considered...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-05 15:36:17)
2 players matches
Hello Jose ! That is not possible yet. There's no players enough to create other tournament categories.. The delay before tournament start could increase significantly.
Trent Parker (2006-05-06 17:15:28)
Best games
I personally think that only finished games should be considered for best games. Or a panel of high rated players should vote for best games. Also i think players should not be able to vote for their own games.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-06 18:32:03)
All is possible...
Maybe players shouldn't be able to vote for their own games... But in most cases, interesting games are first known by the players themselves. We could miss something.
Anyway, I think only really interesting or spectacular games will obtain many votes. We'll see... I also think about mini-sites / kind of blog, or shared wiki-like pages for players who want to discuss & analyze games in depth together.
Henrik Dinesen (2006-05-07 16:35:13)
I'm lost here...
I log in, but I can't find a way to start a game, or enter a tournament. Should I leave imidiatly becaurse stupity or "blindness"? "Anything" I see seem to indicate the first, but ??
Trent Parker (2006-05-08 01:19:43)
re: Mate
Hello Konstantin! your opponent has to resign. Hey Thibault. Could i suggest that you send a message to everyone in regards to this issue? I suspect that quite a lot of people do not read these forums regularly. Just a thought. Cheers, Trent Parker
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-12 07:49:43)
Building groups
I suppose the following method is quite reasonable... (if you have a better idea...)
So, building WCH round-robin tournaments groups : Grading all players by elo. Starting from the middle of the list. The first 2 players, one above the middle, one below, play in the first group, the next 2 players in the second group, the next 2 in the third group etc.. Finally, elo average for each group shouldn't be far from each other. What do you think ?
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2006-05-14 00:47:20)
Swiss
Hello Thibault these are the "rules" (see at http://www.chessfriend.com/ and then Tournaments-CFC World-Championship-CFC Championship 2003)
Modus: 3 rounds Swiss à 10 games each. ... Every player is allowed to participate in all 3 rounds. Pairings of the 1st round are based on rating. We will build equal groups where possible. In the second round we will do the pairings so that be build at first 3 groups depending on score and rating. Among this three groups we will build new tournaments which should be of about equal rating.. Third round will be paired in the same way with the exception that the first group will be the strongest (score and rating). Normally two players should play during a championship cycle only one game. If it will be necessary in a following round that two players play a second game, this game should be played with revised colours.
I will send you more information.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-14 16:07:16)
"Blitz" cup...
Thank you Heinz Georg, for the files you sent to me.
Now I understand better the work and ideas of Reimund Lutzenberger in Chessfriend.com, a great experimentation field for sure...
I first concluded some things not to do in FICGS WCH. In example, a player rated 2500 (even provisional rating from fide) shouldn't have to play in the first stage against a low-rated player in a world championship [but that could be possible in a cup tournament cycle]. So I'll add special rules for high rated players (who are not qualified for the WCH knockout tournament) to begin directly in a 2nd stage tournament...
I agree with Dinesh, the aim is not to use the same formulas, even good ones. Anyway I think we can find new interesting (better :)) ones. But as the WCH is already a rapid tournament cycle, the CUP could be an unrated "blitz" (30 days per game with no increment, or even 10 days + 1 hour / move) knockout (2 games / match + playoffs) !! Something quite "brutal" and unfair between correspondence chess & classical rythms. What do you think ?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-15 08:33:32)
Team Championship
In brief : The idea of a team championship is very good, but of course it's too early... Such a championship could be a 2 stages round-robin tournament with teams of 6 or 7 players.
Bonjour Sébastien. Pourquoi discorde ? :) Au contraire...
Pour le moment j'envisageais des matchs par équipe occasionnels (FICGS vs. fédération ou autre serveur de jeu).
Le problème d'un championnat est qu'il soit représentatif, il serait donc souhaitable (dans le cas par pays) de pouvoir monter des équipes complètes (6 ou 7 joueurs) et que les plus forts joueurs trouvent un "intérêt" à défendre leurs couleurs (dépend de la popularité du serveur). L'idée est de toutes manières des plus intéressantes, mais le serveur doit gagner en confiance et en expérience sur la durée, il est encore tôt. Par contre je me demande comment se déroulerait un tel championnat... Un tournoi toutes ronde (round-robin) entre 5 à 9 pays, divisés par groupes, puis une phase finale ?!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-15 11:05:57)
Blitz cup
Yes, time is the main problem. Correspondence chess don't give a large choice, it's difficult to vary rhythms.
10 days + 1 day per 4 moves (6 extra hours / move) could be more fair and we can avoid playoffs with the sudden death (similar to WCH knockout tournament). I like the idea of a violent, rapid and quite unfair (unrated) tournament. It could be quite popular. An advantage in a knockout (with 2 rounds) is that a few games will have to be played : 7 rounds means at most 14 games... If the number of players doesn't fit, the highest rated players could enter at stage 2. The winner could be qualified for the third stage of the WCH round-robin cycle.
But there are potential problems. I don't find a good & fair algorithm to distribute players in a big knockout (chance is not a good idea, I think), and it could be a big work to organize such a tournament (& start games regularly) with 256 players or more...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-15 13:48:57)
Building groups / Qualifying
Update for the method building round-robin tournaments groups :
1) Grading players by rating
2) Filling the groups. If there are 4 groups, #1 -> group 1, #2 -> group 2, #3 -> group 3, #4 -> group 4, #5 -> group 4, #6 -> group 3, #7 -> group 2, #8 -> group 1, #9 -> group 2 and so on... A clearest way.
Finally, I came back to my first idea, in round-robin tournaments only one player should qualify for next stage (in case of equality, the highest rated). Not sure it's less fair, it's more logical and it rewards the rating obtained before... After all, even ICCF WCH final tournament designate a unique winner. Wch page has been updated.
Dinesh De Silva (2006-05-15 13:49:57)
Team Championship
I like Sebastien Marez's idea, for a team championship somewhere in the near future. It could perhaps be termed FICGS Team World Championship. It's a good way of building camaraderie between chess players too!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-16 19:28:57)
New feature : Comments
Hello to all.
I was thinking about a new feature, that could be quite interesting but maybe controversial. It would allow members to write public comments on any game played, appearing on the viewer page... So it could be used also to share analysis... There are several alternatives : Comments could be displayed or authorized only after the game finished, and / or written only by players who actually played the game, etc...
What do you think ?
David Grosdemange (2006-05-16 20:15:30)
about comments
i think that the players theirself could be able to comment their own games , but others players should wait the end to post their comments . and it should be like on the wiki , to change a comment , man has to be better rated .
Wayne Lowrance (2006-05-17 08:41:06)
overall evaluation of this new site
This mate problem on this site is a big problem. Only chess site I play on where you have won and it is not won until the player resigns. Secondly I am in a game where mate is in 2. but my opponent has stopped playing. Many others are reporting the same thing. The idea is nice, it assumes that all players are good sports. Over all I would say many players here are not considerate of their opponents, and it is a reflection of their charachter. I dont think to much of the moderaters or those who are responsible and have taken a no action stance despite many complaints. Moderator or responsible authority take care of this ridiculous policy Regards Wayne
Per Lea (2006-05-17 13:27:46)
FICGS is not alone....
I have encountered a similar problem on another website: when accepting an offer of a draw, the system wouldn't accept the result unless you played a move as well!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-17 13:41:07)
I just realized...
... that the "call referee" option was not reachable when it's not your turn in a game :/ I'll fix that soon ! It should arrange the situation.
Sorry about that.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-17 13:53:11)
ref : Wayne
You pointed out the problem : Actually, the situation is the same if there's is mate in 2 or mate already... or mate in 15...
Anyway, the "call refere" should have been reachable when it's not your turn. I'll tell here when it's fixed.
Thanks for feedback !
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-17 15:37:39)
Best game :-)
Maybe we should wonder why players didn't vote for other 'better' games !?
A good game doesn't necessarily need to be perfect, but obviously it has to be spectacular. It seems to be the criteria for players. Who said there was no beauty without errors...
However, I hope Wikichess and Comments feature will reveal good chess games in another way.
Glen D. Shields (2006-05-18 00:53:27)
Mate Problem Should be Fixed
Thibault - Since I am never at a loss to voice an opinion , I'll go ahead and voice one here :)
I don't know how much work it is for you to fix the mate problem, but I think it should be fixed. I admit in the 1000+ correspondence games I've played through the years very few games actually get to the checkmate move. When they do, the game should be over. There is no reason one should have to beg his opponent to resign or beg the referee to do something. That doesn't make any sense. Is it a HUGE problem to fix this? I'm perplexed.
Wayne Lowrance (2006-05-19 00:50:31)
It is not nonsense
He resigned i believe cause of opinion of those here. It is not nonsence. The fact that this site is correspondence has nothing to do with it. absolutley nothing ! You go to any club tournament and you will not be welcome back with such over the board conduct. It is rude, spitefull and counter productive to good chess and fair play. You will change this rule my friend. There is NO justification for a player to drag out a forced mate loss if he sees it. and believe me in the case of my game 205 you must admit it is obvious. In fact he should have resigned many moves earlier, I would have 4 sure. do not like your weak argument justifying the mate implementation.... Here is to a nice cite for corresponse chess. Respexctfully Wayne
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-19 02:15:13)
Amici sumus
Hello Wayne. I agree, of course, your game was won. Here the problem is not the checkmate rule, it is about the adjudication of a forced win or draw ! Clearly, there's no perfect solution. There will be some abuses, more or less important ! One can't prevent this... Rules (particularly time rules) mean abuses. But don't forget that if a player abuses, it doesn't mean all players do the same intentionally in such a situation. I don't know if your opponent really stopped to play... (what for ? .. you'll get the point anyway) Maybe he just had other things to do these days... Who knows ? Even if this is not the case, it could have been ! It is the same problem (in the forced mate case) everywhere, there's simply nothing else to do than wait, then call referee when a time limit is reached. There's no other reasonable rule ! (and it would be too much work for referees)
Understand me, I don't say it was not an abuse, I just say there's no solution. If I change the rule, there will be abuses in another way ! There will be abuses anyway... Nevertheless, if you have an idea, I'll read it with interest.
Respectfully.
Glen D. Shields (2006-05-19 03:40:33)
I See Two Issues
Perhaps I miss something, but I see two separate issues here. One issue is technical, the other is chess etiquette.
The inability of the server to recognize that a game is over when one player is checkmated is a technical issue that should be fixed (in my opinion). No resignation should be necessary to end the game.
The chess etiquette issue is different. I agree it is rude for a player to drag out an obviously lost game. Despite the bad behavior, I think it is the individual's right to continue to fight to the bitter end. We might not like it, but that's just part of the game. I never played in any correspondence or over-the-board club where a player's decision to resign was determined by his opponent or the referee.
Glen D. Shields (2006-05-19 03:43:15)
Oops ... sorry!
Oops .. this belongs in the discussion on "the overall evaluation of this site." My apology. Perhaps Thibault could kindly move the above post to the proper place and delete this apology? I'd be very appreciative. Thanks!
Trent Parker (2006-05-19 08:04:48)
My Overall evaluation of this new site
I really like this site. I like the format of the tournaments, I like the fact that the number of games one can play are not limited.
I like the idea of the best game function, however i do not think it is properly utilised (I have aired my ideas on this elsewhere....)
I personally think the resign for checkmate rule is ok, although none of my games have gotten that far yet. After all a) this does not limit the amount of games that you can play on this site and b) your opponent will run out of time anyhow. So what is the difference? You are going to get the point anyhow.
I have the following criticisms:
I am on Dial up. This site is very slow to play on, very time consuming with the amount of games that i am up to. would it be possible to... I dunno... make it like a javascript or something, just to speed it up a bit. Or perhaps even make the submit button further up the page a bit? Often i have gone out of a game thinking that i have made the move when i have forgotten to click the submit button. (By the way this site would be excellent if i had broadband but i don't.)
I may have some more comments later on but at the moment i've said enough.
Thanks for this site Thibault!
Trent Parker
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-19 11:09:58)
Re: Suggestion
Thanks for the suggestion, Wayne. Actually, I'm to implement a "comments" feature (see the discussion in a thread below). I don't think it's a perfect solution ! Of course it's a way to solve this problem, but it will create other problems with other abuses ! Anyway, it's a positive point more for comments. As David Grosdemange said, only players should be able to chat before the game ended. I think I'll do it this way...
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-20 18:39:06)
Equality rule
Hello Daniel.
If the 2300 player scores 5.5 at this tournament, and the 1800 player scores 5, we can imagine the 2300 player makes a bad performance as well (possibly lower than the 1800 player), so the 1800 player should win ?
There's no perfect system, only conditions, but this rule prevents from 'accidents' and grants the rating that is the best players strength indicator. I think this is a way to ensure that the best players will reach the final stages. Because this is a world championship...
Dave Grobler (2006-05-20 21:09:49)
team championship
Hello This is my first post....so I apologise for any mistakes. A team tournament should be organised as soon as possible . It is an excellant way of building up friendships.I think at the moment we have too few members to start . But this site grows quickly ! Teams should start to form now !
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-21 13:02:10)
Teams
Hello Dave. You're probably right...
Feel free to tell me how you imagine this team championship ? How many players by team ? Should the teams have a leader (would designate players, or selected by elo ?) ? Knockout or round-robin cycle ? etc...
Pablo Schmid (2006-05-22 22:49:47)
Wiki
The Wiki is a very good idea, but I think it would have more success and it would be great if there was not a problem with transpositions. Is it possible to fix that soon?
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-23 09:27:49)
Transpositions
Hello Pablo.
I fixed that. Auto-analyzing would take too much time processing, but it now works in another way : Just tell me (please send email) if you find a line transposing to another, and I'll make the change. As it's difficult to cancel a forwarding, only moderators could do such a change.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-23 12:16:14)
Help
Hello Amir.
You could try to enter a waiting list. (ie. FICGS CHESS CLASS SM in CHESS CLASS category)...
Anyway, feel free to read the Help section.
Per Lea (2006-05-24 10:14:43)
Elo list no longer searchable by country
The idea to have flags in the rating list looked like a nice feature at first, but the disadvantage is that it is no longer possible to do a quick serach for players from a specific country. For example, it is interesting to find out if there are any new memebers from your own country. So, instead of letting the computer search for "NOR", I now have to manually read through the complete list. A good alternative would be to let the members sort the rating list by country and name (as on Chessfriend.com)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-26 21:19:33)
transpositions...
Hello David. Thanks for your feedback !
That's a big deal. Actually I have a solution to automate transpositions management. But it could bring other problems... In example, a secondary (or totally wrong) line should always transpose to the main line..
Your example (f4 e5 e4) is true, so we should give our opinion about the position (and future moves), not the last move...
About the search function, you're right again, but this point is even more complex ! I'll think about it later, I must care about time processing. Anyway, you can use Chessbase or Chess Assistant to find games sorted by position. So, by now, the search function works for openings, not positions.
Ryaad Aabid (2006-05-26 22:46:10)
Go Tournament (forfeit)
I have applied to this tournament without reading its rule,that I unfortunately have no idea.I am an old player :-) Therefor I should say SORRY to all players in this tournament - not my interest ! I thought it is some chess tournament with different system ! Please remove my name if it is possible , otherwise I should resign all my games in this tournament. Kind regards Ryaad Aabid
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-28 01:06:10)
Other quotes by famous chess players
"I really believe that Go is destined to take the place of Chess as the leading intellectual game of the Occident, just as it has reigned supreme in the Orient for some four thousand years."
- Edward Lasker, Go and Go-Moku, c. 1934
"While the Baroque rules of chess could only have been created by humans, the rules of go are so elegant, organic, and rigorously logical that if intelligent life forms exist elsewhere in the universe, they almost certainly play go."
- Edward Lasker, international chess master
"You don't have to be really good anymore to get good results. What's happening with Chess is that it's gradually losing its place as the par excellence of intellectual activity. Smart people in search of a challenging board game might try a game called Go."
- Hans Berliner, The New York Times, Feb 6, 2003
"... {it is} something unearthly ... If there are sentient beings on other planets, then they play Go."
- Emanuel Lasker, chess world champion
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-28 15:40:14)
go 9*9
Hello David.
I didn't implement 9x9 goban firstly because I didn't have a Java viewer for this size... Then, I thought it was a good thing not to propose other sizes, 19x19 is "real go", most interesting and challenging games ! 9*9 is only tactical training... Actually my games here are the very first I play on a 19x19 goban. I use to play 9x9 with friends, on a chessboard :-)
We could offer different times, goban sizes, handicaps etc... but I think this is not the way FICGS goes : Purity of games and competition. 19x19 go games are long, but we have time... Not a bad thing to cut idleness (particularly mine :))
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-28 17:17:21)
Chess & go variants.
Ok David... But Chess 960 isn't chess 'training', as Go 9x9 could be. I think unrated chess tournaments wouldn't have much success.
Let's see if other players want to play go 9x9 ... I think the point is about rating and championship. As there is no rating system and only a title for 19x19, players couldn't be attracted by go 9x9 if there isn't the same challenge. I changed the rules in this way, now more players will play continuously Go tournaments and compete to have a chance to play the Go world championship tournament.
David Grosdemange (2006-05-28 22:55:15)