Team Championship discussions

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Sebastien Marez    (2006-05-14 19:12:09)
Team Championship

Thibault, Je sais, je vais encore lancer un sujet de discorde, Pensez pouvoir réaliser un championnat par equipes? Sebastien Marez


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-05-15 08:33:32)
Team Championship

In brief : The idea of a team championship is very good, but of course it's too early... Such a championship could be a 2 stages round-robin tournament with teams of 6 or 7 players.


Bonjour Sébastien. Pourquoi discorde ? :) Au contraire...

Pour le moment j'envisageais des matchs par équipe occasionnels (FICGS vs. fédération ou autre serveur de jeu).

Le problème d'un championnat est qu'il soit représentatif, il serait donc souhaitable (dans le cas par pays) de pouvoir monter des équipes complètes (6 ou 7 joueurs) et que les plus forts joueurs trouvent un "intérêt" à défendre leurs couleurs (dépend de la popularité du serveur). L'idée est de toutes manières des plus intéressantes, mais le serveur doit gagner en confiance et en expérience sur la durée, il est encore tôt. Par contre je me demande comment se déroulerait un tel championnat... Un tournoi toutes ronde (round-robin) entre 5 à 9 pays, divisés par groupes, puis une phase finale ?!


Dinesh De Silva    (2006-05-15 13:49:57)
Team Championship

I like Sebastien Marez's idea, for a team championship somewhere in the near future. It could perhaps be termed FICGS Team World Championship. It's a good way of building camaraderie between chess players too!


Dave Grobler    (2006-05-20 21:09:49)
team championship

Hello This is my first post....so I apologise for any mistakes. A team tournament should be organised as soon as possible . It is an excellant way of building up friendships.I think at the moment we have too few members to start . But this site grows quickly ! Teams should start to form now !


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-05-21 13:02:10)
Teams

Hello Dave. You're probably right...

Feel free to tell me how you imagine this team championship ? How many players by team ? Should the teams have a leader (would designate players, or selected by elo ?) ? Knockout or round-robin cycle ? etc...


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-05-29 23:03:44)
Team Championship

Hello to all.

I'm now promoting the site in this way, a team championship will start as soon as possible. (waiting for more players)


Trent Parker    (2006-05-30 01:50:25)
Quoting Thibault..... My response

Feel free to tell me how you imagine this team championship ? How many players by team ?

I think only 4 per team would be needed. If there are big countries perhaps they could have multiple teams eg. France A, France B etc etc. Four seems to be the best number. It is used in the OTB Olympiad.

Should the teams have a leader (would designate players, or selected by elo ?) ?

IMHO ELO would be best.

Knockout or round-robin cycle ?

I'd prefer round robin. (although i might not have a team yet :D )


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-06-06 16:40:04)
Team championship

Many good ideas... :)

I'll post a news soon, inviting players who want to lead their country team to give me an email where they can be contacted by players.

So far, the rules :

- The leader of each team should be from the country he's playing for.
- If several players ask to lead the same team, the current chess rating will decide.
- Leaders will choose candidate players for his team and the "board" (1, 2, 3 or 4) they will play.
- Players from any country can play with another country team. (all players can play for only one team)


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-06-06 18:07:22)
Rules for team championship

I was thinking about... The possibility for players to defend another country is very interesting, but it may have many consequences that could complicate a lot the process for building teams and the choice for players who want to support a team or another, waiting for leaders decision etc... Furthermore, there could be confusion in the crosstables.

Sorry about that Dinesh, but teams should be 4 players from the same country. Maybe you could invite some other players from Sri Lanka ?

So, rules :

- All games (rated) will be played in 40 days + 40 days / 10 moves.
- If several players ask to lead the same team, the current chess rating will decide.
- Leaders will choose players for their team (4 players by team) and the "board" (1, 2, 3 or 4) they will play.


Dinesh De Silva    (2006-06-07 06:59:09)
Interesting Debate!

Hi, everyone It's quite an interesting debate......regarding whether to name teams after countries or not. Marc, for players like you and I, perhaps we could find some sorta compromise if the team rules allow it. As Thibault says, the problem is that even though our (small)countries hardly have any players interested in correspondence chess to form national teams, playing under another national/country banner is kinda a unique situation (IF allowed). It all depends on whether future FICGS team championship rules might allow it or not. Any creative ideas/suggestions left to make?!


Dinesh De Silva    (2006-06-09 17:55:32)
Good debate regarding team championships

Thibault, it was good discussing these ideas. I too think that postponing team championship might be a good idea, until some of the issues have been sorted out and some sorta common concensus is reached.


Sebastien Marez    (2006-06-10 07:38:09)
Team Championship

Combien avez vous de capitaine pour le championnat par equipes? Sebastien Marez


Thibault de Vassal    (2006-06-10 10:52:11)
Team championship

Très exactement 3... (en me comptant :)) C'était prématuré de toutes manières, et il faudrait que je réfléchisse à une autre approche. Cela dit, je ne suis effectivement pas certain de la nécessité d'une telle compétition, les échecs par correspondance s'y prêtant sans doute moins. A suivre...


Sebastien Marez    (2006-06-10 11:53:40)
Team Championship

Je pense que le jeu par correspondance peut admettre un championnat par équipe, mais pas un championnat avec des équipes par pays, mais des equipes composées par les joueurs eux meme.


Dan Rotaru    (2007-06-03 15:52:53)
World Team Championship

What about organizing a "World Team Championship"? Top rated players from each country willing to play can make a team and register it for the WTC. And than maybe a 9 rounds Swiss? I believe that organizing such an event can generate a lot of interest.


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-06-04 03:38:43)
World Team Championship

Hello Dan.

It's been discussed already... See the last messages of this thread :

http://www.ficgs.com/forum_read_294-Team-Championship.html


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-06-25 15:25:58)
Ficgs vs Igame.ru

Undoubtly the most replied in this forum :)

I think that's not so important matter. A few IGAME.RU players registered with other names and were honest by admitting it. Of course a few players here used nicknames before that, that's not a big deal and that's internet chess. The only way to be sure (actually that's wrong, I saw some cases a long time ago in team championships) of your opponent's identity is to play over the board.

Finally, if some players in IGAME.RU team use nicknames, let's say that's a small advantage we give to them :) .. On the other hand, we play at home !

Not a big deal... really.


Amici sumus !


William Taylor    (2009-04-12 20:04:06)
I still like the idea

I still like the idea of country teams and an Olympiad-like format. I've read Marc's post and can't imagine nationalism would be a problem on a friendly site like FICGS. However, it would be a shame for countries which only have one or two players at FICGS not to be able to play. How about a team championship along the lines of other chess team championships such as the Russian one which has just finished? i.e. teams are made up of invited players from all over the world. Anyone could be a team captain and enter a team if they could get one together. There could be an entry fee and captains might even then pay a fee to top FICGS players to be on their team in an effort to win the FICGS team trophy and prize money. ;) I'm not saying an entry fee would be a good idea - just mentioning it as a possibility. Anyway, I think a team championship of some kind, Olympiad-format or not, or both, would be interesting, exciting, and good for building the sense of community on FICGS.


William Taylor    (2009-10-31 13:14:20)
Don

One correspondence game is taking up lots of my time at the moment - a so-called 'Malkovich' game, where you explain all of your moves at length to the audience. It's here if you felt like taking a look: http://www.godiscussions.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10309

Anyway, I have some way to go before I reach 24,000 moves. :O I wonder if I can make it before the team championship is over and the Dark Knights hold the trophy...


Hannes Rada    (2009-11-29 08:55:25)
FIDE GMs at CC

There are several examples where an OTB GM played cc and could not dominate the other (hobby) players.
i.e.
Young Austrian Fide GM Markus Ragger here at the Austrian cc team championship
http://www.iccf-webchess.com/EventCrossTable.aspx?id=18429
Further I had a draw at chessfriend against FIDE GM Daniel Fridman (Elo > 2660).
As far as I know Fide GM Ulf Anderson played at ICCF without so much success.


Thibault de Vassal    (2011-09-26 18:03:55)
Italia & Eros strike at ICCF team champ

Italia made it very well (so Eros Riccio 1st at 1st board, and Mauro Petrolo 2nd at 6th board) against a very strong field in the ICCF european team championship!!

Italia finish second, Slovakia wins...

http://auryn.obolog.com/scacchi-l-italia-guidata-da-riccio-seconda-agli-europei-1282242

http://www.iccf-webchess.com/EventCrossTable.aspx?id=17521
http://www.iccf-webchess.com/EventCrossTable.aspx?id=17522


Congrats guys :)


Thibault de Vassal    (2012-09-27 23:39:12)
Eros Riccio wins 6th and 7th chess WCH

By beating Alberto Gueci in the final match of the 6th chess championship & Ostap Hladky in the candidates final of the 7th chess championship, Eros Riccio will remain FICGS chess champion for at least 16 months! After this huge performance, Eros accepted to answer a few questions:

----------------------------------

- Hello Eros and congratulations again for winning your 3rd and 4th (respectively 6th and 7th cycles) FICGS chess championships in a row, beating Alerto Gueci in the 12 games match of the final match and Ostap Hladky in the 8 games match of the candidates final so that you meet yourself in the last round that thus will not happen for the 3rd time of the championship (first time was during the first cycle because there was no champion yet). All games of the two matches were drawn, but it does not say much on the intensity of the match as we all know your strategy since your win in your first final match vs. Edward Kotlyanskiy when you explained that your preferred a draw that guarantees the victory than a possible win where a mouse slip is still possible. Obviously your strategy works very well but one can add that you had an impressive number of running games at the rapid time control, so very much pressure... How did you live these last months of correspondence chess and these two matches?

Hi Thib! And thanks once again for the congratulations. These 28 games (let's not forget also the 8 games match against Gino Figlio) probably started in the worst moment for me, just a few months after the very important European Team Championship on ICCF had started. When I told my captain that I was starting another 28 games... he was very disappointed and worried, as he had repeated a lot of times to every player of our team not to start new tournaments and to focus only on this tournament. Also for this reason I had decided not to join the new Italian Championship and other tournaments and to withdraw from the Champions League, but unfortunately I had no control on when to start my FICGS games. So... my priority was for my ICCF games, and fortunately for me all I needed to do in my FICGS Matches to win was to make draws, and that's what I tried to do in most of my games as fast as possible, and to my surprise my opponents accepted to draw many games quite quickly, not trying to fight each game "to death" like I would have done if I would have been them. This of course only created quick boring games, but I didn't see the point in putting energy in trying to win games myself.... I think my opponents should have done that!

- We all know that you and Alberto are good friends from long time, did it influence your match in the 6th WCH in any way according to you?

Well, it's a good think knowing your opponent's habits... you can send your moves as soon as you know he goes to bed :-)

- Ostap Hladky is undoubtly one of the strongest players at FICGS, was this match (7th WCH candidates final) very different from the other one?

Hladky was the strongest player I had ever played on FICGS, he is very unpredictable, he simply plays unexpected moves that engines don't suggest, but if you show them those moves, they slowly realize those are very good moves. I risked to lose more than one game vs him, even as White. Luckily I still managed to draw, and in my opinion he also accepted some draws too quickly.

- With the last evolutions of chess engines, playing better & better chess, would you say that you now spend less time on each game or not at all?

I don't spend less time on my games, I still try to use (almost) all the time on my "clock". Trying to analyze as many variations as possible with the time you are given has little to do with engines improvement, who still are far from being able to always suggesting the best move by simply letting them run for hours on a static position. You need to analyze going "forward" in the position in order to be able to find the best moves.

- By the way, it is said sometimes (again) that correspondence chess will not survive the decade, what do you think? Do you envisage to change for Go or poker like many players? :)

Wins and Losses still happen even at the highest levels at the present time. I think that many years still have to pass before having all draws in high level tournaments. When that happens... and it will probably happen sooner or later as chess in my opinion is a draw with perfect play... then probably new rules will be introduced, maybe the board will be enlarged and even new pieces with new movements might be invented.

- You now are ICCF GM with an impressive 2624 rating, how are going your other correspondence chess competitions? Do you have any goal to reach yet?

All my ICCF tournaments are going good, and very soon I will be Italian Champion once again (just waiting my last opponent to resign a lost position). I still haven't reached the first place in the italian elo rating list though. That would be a goal I would surely have pleasure in reaching, and of course I would like to win the ICCF's World Championship at least once. After that I can retire :-)

- Thank you Eros, also for this great correspondence chess lesson.

Welcome Thib! A pleasure for me.


Thibault de Vassal    (2015-07-11 02:18:11)
E. Riccio on his win in the 10th CC WCH

Once again, Eros kindly answered a few questions after his win in the 10th FICGS correspondence chess championship. His answer on tie break rules meets the discussion in this thread:

http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=11773

____________________________


- Hello Eros and congrats again for this new win in the FICGS correspondence chess championship! This time, your opponent was Peter W. Anderson and you're playing him once again in the next final match. Actually, all games finished in less than 3 months, which looks like superfast, how did it happen?

Hello once again Thibault! Yes, the match with Anderson was very quick. The reasons are that he moves very fast, and like me, I don't seem to remember that he took any day of leave.

Also, our games were not played until the very end; many draws were agreed with many pieces on the board, as soon as we thought that none of us had winning chances.


- For many players, it is quite impossible to beat you in such a 12 games match (probably because of the tie rule). After all these won matches do you start to think that the advantage is too big?

It's a fact that a very high percentage of correspondence games played at the top level ends up in a draw... (and that percentage is even higher in my case, as my strategy is to avoid taking risks) so yes, talking against my interests, I think that something in the rules should be changed.


- By the way, your opponent suggested an interesting tie rule in the forum ( Chess, Poker & Go forum - Topic 11773 ), in the context of more general new ideas for correspondence chess rules (e.g. article by GM Arno Nickel - Correspondence Chess – the draw problem ) in order to increase the interest of the game. Do you have any opinion on all this?

The idea GM Nickel launched could be interesting, even if before we can say for sure if it can be applied in serious tournaments, it needs to be tested.

If I understood correctly, having a piece more in a draw endgame, after the game is over, a little plus on the score would be given to the player who had the small advantage.

I always thought like: How unfair! That player had King and two Knights against a lone King of his opponent... still he only got a half point anyway! Or even worse, in theory, one player could have this position: King in e1, Bishop in h1 and 6 Pawns from h2 to h7. (Black King in h8) Counting the value of pieces that would be a a +9 advantage, like a Queen more, but still it would be a draw. Another crazy scenario, more common, are those blocked positions were 16 pawns block the center (or more simply any fortress position) and not rarely it happens that a color has a huge material advantage but can't break through in any way. In this last case the player with material disadvantage could have found a genial idea to reach that blocked position, should his opponent with extra pieces still be given an advantage after the game?

Another important consideration is that this rule could discourage attacking players to play gambits or make sacrifices, as if the attack fails, their efforts to try to win would be punished! This last case would even increase the draw rate.

Probably Nickel didn't talk about giving a plus after games finished with advantage but still many pieces on board, anyway those positions (except the 16 Pawns one) could very well be played on until only one piece would be left.

After these examples we can see that there are so many different ways that a position with material advantage can be reached... but it's not always fair that the player with the advantage should be given a plus after the game. As a paradox, an advantage should be given to the opponent if he smartly managed to sacrifice one or more pieces in order to reach a draw endgame which he would have lost if he didn't give away material.


- Of course, the level of chess programs is for much in it. Do you feel that high level correspondence chess and centaur chess evolved much this year, or did it reach a kind of peak?

The level of correspondence chess increases in a parallel way as computers, databases and chess programs improve. Slowly everything keeps improving. Of course, due to the more thinking time, correspondence chess will always have a higher draw percentage than blitz games played by computers.


- Finally, what can you tell us about your correspondence chess path this year, particularly at ICCF where you're currently ranked #13?

On ICCF I am fighting with the Italian Team (I am playing in second board behind the World Champion Finocchiaro) in the 9th European Team Championship.
---> https://www.iccf.com/event?id=44123








 		 
 
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