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Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-11 14:54:36)
FICGS titles
Hello to all.
I would like to have players opinion !
As you may have noticed, I already changed FICGS titles to FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM. (not titles obtained elsewhere) Do you agree with titles appearing this way ?
I thought several other ways : EFM, IFM, SFM, GFM, or only to mention norms obtained ! (not titles) At last, of course, we can suppress definitely titles from FICGS, a bad idea in my opinion. What do you think about that ?
Thank you in advance for your responses.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-14 04:54:25)
Proposal from a visitor (anonymous)
" >>> Hi Thibault
Congratulations for the launch of your new CC server! I fully support your initiative and hope I will join very soon.
Meanwhile I would like to share some ideas about the Ficgs Titles, which I also fully and unconditionally support.
My proposal is to adopt/or "recognize" any title awarded by FIDE/ICCF/IECG as a FGM, FSIM, FIM, FEM titles. (e.g. not just IECG IM = FIM, but all others too).
That is, a ICCF GM should be named FGM much as a FIDE GM, or IECG GM (or SIM, IM or EM for CC). There shouldn't be special treatment to those players with a title from FIDE/ICCF
Then, to differentiate them, there could be a color scheme or a footnote explaining the procedence of the title: FGM (ICCF) ...FSIM (IECG) and simply FSIM for the truly SIM title obtained at FICGS.
In adition, those players who do not have a title, but have norms either at FIDE/ICCF/IECG (my case ;) either will have them "homologated" (as the titles are) or better, when/if the title has been awarded later, his Ficgs title will be "updated" to the newly awarded title (by FIDE/ICCF/IECG), which must be the highest of them all (as in IECG SIM > ICCF IM > FEM ..etc)
This way FICGS will be the first organization to homologate norms and titles in CC world ;) <<< "
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-17 19:25:06)
New features...
Coordinates & last move have been implemented... Now the "live games" concept of the site extends to the home page :)
Also, player informations are 5 successive pages (informations, elo history, title norms, tournaments, games), reachable just by clicking on "ELO" (to improve yet) after clicking the magnifying glass.
Marius Zubac (2006-09-01 16:19:35)
Title norms page update
Hi, My question is how and when is the title norms information page (from player's statistics) get updated. Thanks
Thibault de Vassal (2006-09-01 17:37:52)
FICGS titles update
This site will work by itself soon... :)
Thanks Benjamin. I'll post soon again about the council/staff, moderators etc.. Feel free to tell me if you're interested ;)
About titles, I'll add that players who will get a FICGS title could probably have one at ICCF, so they're invited to try...
The first norms calculation just occured. Here are the result(s) :
FICGS__CHESS__RAPID_M__000001 : Zubac, Marius EM=1,IM=1
Dinesh De Silva (2006-09-02 11:39:12)
Re: FICGS titles update...........
As a fellow correspondence chess player, let me take this opportunity to CONGRATULATE Marius Zubac for achieving the title norms. Well done!
Marius Zubac (2006-11-19 19:21:59)
A penalty system is needed
Hello Thibault. I think that time has come for you to add new rules to FICGS and a penalty system (using penalty points) to discourage players from retire-comeback behavior. Loosing some games on time unless provoked by some unforeseen event should be also penalized although less severe. Upon reaching a certain number of penalty points the player should be prevented to register for new FICGS tournaments (let's say a half a year) and on resuming the penalized player should be only allowed to play a limited number of games until the lesson is learned. If you would compare FICGS list with the server-based IECG list you should notice that FICGS is less populated in the strong players section (2200+) than IECG and this has an impact on the quality of high-end tournaments, norms and titles and of course ratings. If we want to improve FICGS some action in this regard must be taken. I sympathize with Mr. Oltean and wish he reconsiders his decision. Marius
Marius Zubac (2006-11-20 00:25:05)
The penalty system - a proposal
A player that for a (good) reason is not able to continue his games should have two choices: A) Let some games get lost on time and then he would be treated under the penalty system. B) Ask for a retirement and in this case no penalties should be applied. Once a player asks for retirement the following actions should be taken: 1. His status in the rating list should be flagged to retired; perhaps a retired player should not be able to register a new tournament; 2. A retired player could get re-instated by applying directly to the FICGS adjudication commission; 3. All the retired player’s running games should then be frozen and dealt with on a by tournament basis: 3a) if in a tournament the retired player has finished games that are not lost the remaining games should be adjudicated by FICGS for rating purposes. However all the retired player’s games should not be counted for qualification purposes (if the tournament provides qualification to a next stage); how the games are to be considered for norms is a matter to be discussed. 3b) if in a tournament the retired player has finished games that are all lost the tournament director can act as in 3a) or has the option of canceling all the retired player’s games. This proposal is far from perfect but shows that we are not helpless and some action can be taken. The reason I mentioned IECG is because probably on the server the population is roughly equivalent with the FICGS’s one but in IECG’s case the distributed is more favorable in the upper section. This is the reason why there is enough active population at any given time for new tournaments and severe rules are not needed as much as in FICGS’s case in order to maintain a meaningful activity. My belief is that the centaur mode will prove in time to generate stronger games, stronger chess and FICGS will have chances to become in time the most relevant correspondence chess server. The technical conditions are already met. Marius
Marcus Miranda (2007-02-21 18:01:11)
Unrelated suggestion
This probably has nothing to do with this topic, but one suggestion I would like to make is to put the tournaments won by the player in the player profile. For me it would be kind of cool since I am a bit far from titles or norms. Anyways it's just a thought. And by the way, this site is great, thanks thibault.
Ivan Zarullin (2007-06-29 11:06:24)
russian norms and titles
Dear Thibault, you can find russian national chess norms at http://www.rossport.ru/pdf/chess.xls. E.g., to become a national master a russian player have to reach 2450 ELO and to accomplish IM norm, or to win World\Europe Championship U16 or U18.
Svante Carl von Erichsen (2007-07-11 16:14:00)
Norms
Perhaps you could also explain what a "norm" is, for chess newbies.
Garvin Gray (2007-07-11 16:15:47)
formula on here for norms
Yeah, it was the formula etc that I was after. I had already seen the information in the link before I asked the question
Garvin Gray (2007-07-09 17:46:17)
Norms and titles
How do players achieve norms and titles at ficgs? What tournaments do players have to compete in to get norms and titles at ficgs?
Marcus Miranda (2007-07-09 18:12:25)
Norms and titles
My guess is that you can only achieve norms in the class M, SM, GM and rapid M tournaments. Once the tournament starts you know the number of points you have to win to get a norm.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-07-11 14:29:13)
Norms and titles
http://www.ficgs.com/membership.html#titles
.. true, the formula should be fully explained too.
Svante Carl von Erichsen (2007-09-06 22:04:56)
Norms
What is the exact definition of a "norm"? When googling, I found something along the lines of "a tournament performance indicating that a certain level has been reached", but what does it mean? Winning more than half of the games? How does it depend on the opponents' strength?
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-06 22:48:47)
Norms
Actually, title norms (ie. FICGS rated chess tournaments) depend on the number of points achieved in a tournament by a player and generally the elo average of the players in the tournament (that define the number of points required in the tournament for a title norm).
I have to update the rules to explain how it is calculated exactly.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-09 16:17:20)
Waiting list is open
The rules are : "FICGS chess no engines tournaments are unrated single round-robin tournaments, involving 7 players. The special rule for these tournaments is that chess engines, databases and opening books are strictly forbidden. All games are played in 40 days + 40 days / 10 moves. Norms are not possible."
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-25 21:03:09)
Title norms
Hi Garvin, sorry for the delay :)
A title norm (FEM, FIM, FSM, FGM) can be achieved in a correspondence chess tournament with at least 7 players and 6 games played per player.
More explanations and % table :
http://www.ficgs.com/membership.html#titles
Thibault de Vassal (2008-03-09 22:48:57)
Norms
Hi Wayne, category S is the first category that allow to make a title norm. You just made me notice it is written category -1 in the rules (I'll correct it) :
http://www.ficgs.com/membership.html#titles
So, you may obtain a FEM norm if you score 4.5 in this tournament.
Thibault de Vassal (2008-03-30 07:25:30)
Freestyle cup : Rules & start
There was a small conflict in the rules, now corrected : The first game will start at 13:00 server time, not 15:00
Current rules :
FICGS advanced chess "freestyle" cup is a 6 rounds swiss tournament with entry fee and prize, played in a single day. Entry fees are E-Points that you can buy in 'My account'. Read carefully terms and conditions, particularly Entry fees & Prize money sections before to play tournaments with entry fees.
All games are played in 30 minutes + 15 seconds / move. Norms are not possible.
The first round will start at the date and hour (13:00 server time) indicated as "deadline". Next rounds will start at 15:00, 17:00, 19:00, 21:00 and 23:00 server time. Please register carefully as it is not possible to retire from the waiting list. It is strongly recommended to display the chat bar to communicate with the tournament director.
If several players obtain the best score and the best Sonnenborn-Berger, they will share the prize. It is possible to forfeit all next games (that will be unrated for the advanced chess rating list) during the tournament.
FIDE GM & IM, FICGS / ICCF GM, SM & IM are invited to enter the waiting list for free.. Please just send a message to webmaster through My account page to register. You may be asked to send a copy of your passport or ID card. The tournament might be cancelled if less than 7 players registered before the deadline, in this case entry fees will be given back to the players.
An extra fee, usually 30% of the entry fee, will be added to the entry fee 2 days before the start of the tournament.
Thibault de Vassal (2008-05-19 06:35:14)
Major update (may 2008)
Hello to all, a new update including :
- Regular tournaments with prizes (see thread "Free tournaments with prizes")
- Norms, titles and prizes are now announced by email.
- Players with Epoints are shown in the connected players list (My messages).
- Affiliate links : For each new player referred by your link (see My account) posted on the world wide web, 1 Epoint will be added to your account.
- Search games function improved : You can now search games by opening and by rating (White & Black)
All feedback welcome :)
Jason Repa (2008-06-09 08:12:28)
Brackets - both Chess and Go
" -- allow the winner of a tournament to qualify for the next higher classification regardless of his/her rating."
This idea seems interesting, on the surface, but on closer inspection it's not feasible. The FICGS tournament categories are dependent on certain rating averages that determine the level of points required in order to achieve norms for various FICGS titles, starting at class "M" and higher. Throwing in lower rated players would dilute the rating average of the entire tournament. It's also unfair to the rest of the players in that tournament who are legitimately qualified to be there. They are forced to play a lower rated opponent artificially and now THEY are at a big disadvantage in their attempt to gain the points required to get to the next level.
Additionally, I don't think groves thought about this long enough to realize that there is no guarantee that each "A" level tournament will end precisely as each "M" level tournament does. What if two "A" level events are completed in the time it takes for one "M" level event to finish, which isn't an unreasonable possibility as the "M" level players generally take the game more seriously and tend to use their time more? Should we then throw in TWO players into an "M" level event that don't deserve to be there? At any rate, it's a poor idea. If someone is winning tournaments, they're definitely gaining rating points and will qualify legitimately for the next rating level soon enough.
Jason Repa (2008-06-09 11:05:13)
Brackets - Chess and Go
"Thanks for your reasoned response"
Somehow I don't think you know the meaning of the word "reason", groves.
"(1) Having one lower rated player in a group of seven does not seem to me to be much of a dilution"
It is very much a dilution. As I just finished explaining to you, it will not only make it more difficult for the other players in the tournament who legitimately qualify to be there by rating, to acquire the rating points necessary to get to the next level, but it will lower the overall rating average and effect the awarding of norms.
"Also, remember that this player is at or very near the top of the next lower rated group"
Total rubbish. You just finished saying, in your previous post, that you propose to allow the winner of a tournament to qualify for the next higher classification REGARDLESS of his/her rating. There is no certainty that the winner of the tournament will be near the top of the next lower rated group. They could very well be at the bottom of the next lower rated group, as I often was, as were many others, when I won tournaments.
"and again, this doesn't seem like a large enough disparity to be of concern."
And AGAIN, As I just finished explaining to you, it will not only make it more difficult for the other players in the tournament who legitimately qualify to be there by rating, to acquire the rating points necessary to get to the next level, but it will lower the overall rating average and effect the awarding of norms.
"Thibault instituted a rule that losing to a lower rated player only counts as a loss to someone a maximum of 150 ELO below"
Where did you get the 150 ELO figure from? I was under the impression it was a 200 ELO ceiling. Not that this has any relevance in terms of supporting your position anyway.
"The new rule could easily specify that no more than one lower rated player may enter any given tournament."
I just finished explaining to you that there is no guarantee that the "M" class tournaments will end at the same time as the "A" class tournaments. Not only do "M" class players tend to take the game more seriously and move slower, but there are more "A" class players than "M" so it takes longer to fill an "M" class list, hence less "M" class tournaments are played. If you propose to have only one "A" class player sent to an "M" class tournament at a time, then you'll quickly accumulate a waiting list backlog of "A" class players waiting to be seeded into a tournament they don't legitimately qualify for, stretching for decades. The other reasons I mentioned are MORE than enough reason to ditch this suggestion. This is just gravy.
Additionally, and once again, as I just finished explaining to you, if someone is winning tournaments, they're gaining rating points and will soon be able to qualify for the new rating category through legitimate means. So there is no reason at all to provide such "handouts".
I hope I don't have to repeat myself a third time here. It seems quite silly that you don't yet understand the simple and logical truth of what has been explained to you.
Garvin Gray (2008-07-04 16:49:20)
norms?
Are norms available from Class M tournaments?
Thibault de Vassal (2008-07-04 22:54:33)
norms in Class M
It all depends on the rating average.
http://www.ficgs.com/membership.html#titles
Wayne Lowrance (2008-10-13 07:33:14)
Hello Thibault
I am just curious. I just realized that I am getting close to 3 norms for FEM. In Tournament M #15 I have already enough points for a FEM norm. In Tournament M #21 I will earn a FEM and possibly FIM norm. In M #19 it is possible I could earn FEM norm. Question: in the M #15 tournament I have not been notified about qualifying. ( and I have). Which brings up the question. Do you notify the players of norm status. And should a player earn enough to get 3 FEM norms does the server notify that player, and how often are Status achievments upgraded. Wayne
Thibault de Vassal (2008-10-13 12:31:56)
Hello Wayne :)
The norms calculation occur about once per month but it just consider tournaments where you have no more running games !
I just launched a calculation so you should see the changes now (and you must have been warnt by email for your norms and title). Well, actually I see no norm for you so you must have at least one running game in this tournament.
My best,
Thibault
Wayne Lowrance (2008-10-13 17:15:58)
norms
thank you Thibault. Yes, I see, in M #15 I still do have one running game. I am 5/5 in that tournament so I do have one more game to complete. Wayne
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