Droppers discussions

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B. Ozen, 2269
N. Wilson, 2121

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See game 152323




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Marc Lacrosse    (2007-03-20 11:50:17)
Droppers ...

Too many droppers in my running tournament (M007)

This is not funny ...

Marc


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-20 11:59:58)
Droppers

Indeed, this tournament was a kind of rendez-vous :/


Marc Lacrosse    (2007-03-28 15:16:58)
Droppers kill the fun !

... And this tournament (M 007)is now finished with two additional aborted games through dropping out...

I congratulate the well-deserved winner of the tournament (Karsten Fyhn)

I am sure he must be a little frustrated like I am : both his final game and mine were very interesting ones for which we both got the full point through dropping-out of our opponents ...

This is not funny at all !
I hate analysing a game for months and seeing it aborted because my opponent withdraws without resigning and lets his clock runs for months without a single word of explanation

I suppose i cannot ask for banning such impolite persons ...

But one thing is clear for me : I don't wish to enroll any more in tournaments with droppers.

So for what regards myself either Thibault creates a new kind of tournaments into which former droppers are not allowed to suscribe or I stop playing here

A very disappointed player ...


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-28 15:46:28)
Droppers

I feel that for at least 3 players in this tournament the problem is they had too many games at the same time ! (FICGS + IECG + ICCF ;))

What is strange is they all came back a few months later and registered for new tournaments. This is a real problem... The best answer to this in my opinion is rating that can decrease quite quickly, some will have to fight hard to enter a class M tournament again. In some cases of course there are personal reasons, it is hard to know and that's a pity to ban such players... :/

So it wasn't a good tournament, sorry about that. Still thinking about a new rule.


Marc Lacrosse    (2007-03-28 19:32:07)
You change the rules or I leave :-)

A few comments in french (sorry : easyer for me)

Deux situations distinctes se produisent :

1. Quelqu'un a mal évalué et s'est engagé dans trop de parties, ou bien a un problème de santé, ou un changement de ses possibilités de loisirs. Il décide d'abandonner un tournoi, abandonne toutes ses parties, donne une petite explication à ses adversaires et bien sûr ne se réinscrit à rien dans l'immédiat. Désagréable mais bien sûr tout à fait admissible. La moindre des choses est qu'on lui interdise de s'inscrire à quoi que ce soit tant que ce qui reste de parties n'est pas terminé (ou abandonné) et que la prochaine réinscription se limite au départ à un seul tournoi qui devra être complètement terminé avant de pouvoir à nouveau cumuler plusieurs inscriptions simultanées.

2. Quelqu'un s'inscrit à de multiples tournois et s'arrête de jouer dans ceux où il est mal parti. Il ne prévient rien ni personne et laisse son temps s'écouler. Entretemps il s'inscrit à d'autres tournois et procède de même. De temps en temps il termine un tournoi si celui-ci parait mieux engagé. Ce joueur(?)-ci est simplement un parasite, un gâcheur de plaisir et un fausseur de résultats pour ceux qui le rencontrent. Mon opinion est sans appel : exclusion pure et simple de celui qui laisse s'éteindre des parties sans aucun commentaire tout en s'inscrivant à de nouveaux tournois. Je ne vois aucune justification possible à une telle attitude.

Je comprends que certains ne partagent pas cette opinion radicale

Quoiqu'il en soit, j'estime que le minimum exigible en faveur de ceux qui ont déjà été confronté à des "droppers" est de leur offrir un moyen de ne pas se trouver à nouveau confrontés aux mêmes parasites dans un autre tournoi.

Je m'explique : actuellement si je m'inscris dans un nouveau tournoi je n'ai aucune assurance quant à l'identité de ceux qui viendront s'inscrire après moi, et je risque à donc à nouveau d'être confronté à quelques-uns de ces personnages que je suis fermement décidé à ne plus rencontrer.

Je n'accepte pas cette perspective

Dès lors, tant qu'il n'y aura pas une modification de règlement qui me permettra d'éviter qu'un "dropper" connu s'inscrive dans un tournoi où je prendrai part, je ne jouerai plus sur FICGS.

Marc

PS Pour ma part, m'étant déjà engagé dans ce tournoi qui a complètement avorté et dans un tournoi master class ICCF, j'ai renoncé à ma qualification dans le championnat FICGS pour éviter de me trouver dans l'obligation éventuelle de renoncer à certaines parties. Le moins qu'on puisse dire est que l'attitude de certains ne me récompense pas vraiment de ma prudence ...


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-29 05:10:48)
Cas particuliers

Je rajoute quand même qu'il y a effectivement déjà quelques cas un peu complexes pour lesquels je ne saurais pas si je dois ou non appliquer une pénalité... Il y aura de toutes façons toujours des perturbations de temps à autre. Une chose est sûre, dans ton tournoi il n'y a pas que des "serial droppers" ;)


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-29 05:28:00)
Droppers : New rule

Hello to all.

I'm to add a new rule to minimize the effects of silent withdrawals & forfeits without an explanation. The aim is first to guarantee to players they will not play again with droppers before a while... Rule is : "Any player who forfeits (by resignation or silent withdrawal) his games without giving an explanation to referee in a rated chess tournament will get an instant rating penalty of 200 points."

Thus, players go at least one category down. Of course it could be easier to ban players for a while, but just trying to avoid this.

All comments and suggestions are welcome.


Don Groves    (2007-03-29 05:55:31)
Droppers: New rule

This rule penalizes resignations the same as quitting (silent withdrawal) and it seems to me that quitting is much worse. With a resignation at least the other player knows what is happening and can forget about the game. Not so with quitters.


Elmer Valderrama    (2007-03-29 13:09:49)
Droppers: New rule

Unjustified resignations are equally disturbing (but not that common) so they deserve equal treatment in my opinion.

Silent withdrawers could be punished faster (quicker than 60 days) if time is doubled after 10, 20,..etc days.


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-29 14:48:46)
Another try

Of course there's always a bad part to a rule : finding the way to go round it.. and of course only serial droppers will, so to divide it in 2 parts may be useless :/

Another try : "Any player who forfeits (by resignation or silent withdrawal) his games without giving an explanation to referee in a rated chess tournament could get a limited access to the server and couldn't enter waiting lists anymore during a period of 2 months, at the referee's discretion."

Thus, when a dropper returns (after the next rating calculation), his rating will probably prevent him to enter the same category of tournaments - which is the initial aim.


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-30 00:00:10)
Fast double RR at five players

My prediction for such tournaments : More droppers / silent withdrawals (what difference with losing on time then) after the 10 first moves... More unfair rating changes. This is no more correspondence chess IMO.


Wayne Lowrance    (2007-03-30 02:15:30)
Droppers: New Rule

I am wrestling with this new rule a little bit. Cannot make up my mind if I like it or not. I do not like to see games foreited or silent withdrawals in general. But Tribault goes on to amplify "any player who forfeits his games without giving an explanation...." The term (plural) games is one thing. But should I wish to forfeit "a" game based on my evaluation should not be challenged. I would not think I would have to explain why I am doing so. A certain amount of trust is required here on this site as Tribault has preached over and over again...Oh well, either way, fire away. Wayne


Don Groves    (2007-03-30 02:40:19)
Droppers rule

Perhaps trying to fit all cases into one rule is not going to work well. How about a ruling troika, Thibault plus two experts of his choice, that rules on the merits (or demerits ;-) of each case and penalizes appropriately. Serial droppers are banned for some period, others are punished less harshly. An undefended resignation is only penalized if the troika decides it was unwarranted. The same applies to Go games as well.


Thibault de Vassal    (2007-03-30 04:48:24)
Droppers: New Rule

Rules must stay as simple as possible.. not so easy. There will be a council, referees and moderators, but as far as I can easily referee all games played here, it means rules are quite good IMO... This new rule doesn't look so fuzzy to me : "Without an explanation", so if a game is obviously lost or if there's an advantage, that is an explanation and the game can't be considered as a forfeit. Anyway I just added ".. in an equal or winning position". By the way, there must be several games in the same cases, it should be quite easy to make the difference. Actually, there's only one player here I couldn't say if he's a dropper or not (even if he's conscious of that or not) :-)








 		 
 
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