Home
Information
Login
Register
Waiting lists
Membership
Hall of fame
Tournaments
Best game
Wikichess
Rating list
Problems
Forum
Links
Help
About
| Install FICGS apps | |
| play chess online |  |
|
Game result (chess) B. Ozen, 2269 N. Wilson, 2121 1/2-1/2 See game 152323 |
Hot news Discussions Files search Social network
Back to forum
Patrice Verdier (2006-04-12 09:47:09)
Tournaments formulas
I am agree with De Silva. I think that already tournaments are slow. 10 moves for 40 days or 30 days is a good formula. Perhaps it will be interesting to create blitz tournament for players who like this (example : 1 move by day) Also it will be interesting to create tournament with Cup System.
Jose Carrillo (2006-05-05 00:25:09)
Start positions
In FRECC santioned events, we rather have each board be different within the same tournament. It favours even more creativity when each board is different, and no one can look at another board for ideas. Look at a sample FRCEC tournament: http://frcec.chess960.info/FischerCup.htm
Sebastien Marez (2006-05-06 15:47:35)
Cup
Cher ami, Avez vous prevu un tournoi du style COUPE FICGS? Bien amicalement Sebastien Marez
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-06 16:58:07)
FICGS cup...
Bonjour Sebastien.
Non, pas encore. D'abord pour ne pas multiplier les tournois, au risque de diviser leur popularité. Le problème reste d'imaginer une formule un peu originale, qui ne ressemble pas trop au championnat du monde (donc peut-être éviter le classique cycle de tournois round-robin). A suivre...
(about a FICGS cup, the problem is to imagine an original scheme, that doesn't look like too much to the FICGS world championship... a classical round-robin cycle is maybe 'not enough' to justify this special event)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-09 16:08:33)
Cup / Wch
Bonjour Sébastien.
J'avoue que j'ai du mal à trouver de quoi justifier l'existence d'un tournoi "cup" utilisant la même formule ou presque que le championnat du monde, à part diviser l'intérêt et la fréquentation de l'un et de l'autre... Il est bien dommage que le système suisse ne puisse pas s'appliquer aux tournois de jeux par correspondance... Peut-être, pourquoi pas, proposer une coupe (façon championnat) d'échecs 960, ou réservée aux joueurs classés au dessus d'une barre ELO à déterminer...
Jose Carrillo (2006-05-13 00:28:45)
Re: Qualifying
In a Knock out you can have 3rd vs 4th in the final. In the Page system you can't.
It's just a matter of whether you want to acknowledge the top players in the round robin.
In the page system ONLY the top four players in the round robin qualify for the playoffs.
Look at the Page system in practice in the Gligoric Cup tournament that we are running in FRCEC at:
http://frcec.chess960.info/GligoricCup.htm
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2006-05-13 17:58:51)
Swiss
Hello Thibault, Chessfriend.com has started the Championship as a 3 rounds Swiss tournament. Why don't we try this form under the name FICGS-CUP? I have liked the mode. Heinz-Georg
Dinesh De Silva (2006-05-14 07:43:13)
An alternative to Cup Championship
In my opinion, instead of a Cup Championship, perhaps a Knock Out Rapid Championship maybe more interesting!? This is simply an idea. (Otherwise, FICGS might begin to look too similar to other correspondence chess sites, don't you think?!)
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-14 16:07:16)
"Blitz" cup...
Thank you Heinz Georg, for the files you sent to me.
Now I understand better the work and ideas of Reimund Lutzenberger in Chessfriend.com, a great experimentation field for sure...
I first concluded some things not to do in FICGS WCH. In example, a player rated 2500 (even provisional rating from fide) shouldn't have to play in the first stage against a low-rated player in a world championship [but that could be possible in a cup tournament cycle]. So I'll add special rules for high rated players (who are not qualified for the WCH knockout tournament) to begin directly in a 2nd stage tournament...
I agree with Dinesh, the aim is not to use the same formulas, even good ones. Anyway I think we can find new interesting (better :)) ones. But as the WCH is already a rapid tournament cycle, the CUP could be an unrated "blitz" (30 days per game with no increment, or even 10 days + 1 hour / move) knockout (2 games / match + playoffs) !! Something quite "brutal" and unfair between correspondence chess & classical rythms. What do you think ?
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2006-05-14 17:29:59)
Swiss and Blitz Cup
Hello Thibault
Swiss tournament was only a suggestion. I don't like knockout tournaments - too many rounds (7 if 128 players want to play), great problems, if not the right number of players is available or players withdraw. If you have only 30 days for the whole game, it is much better to live on the "right" continent relative to your opponent.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-05-15 11:05:57)
Blitz cup
Yes, time is the main problem. Correspondence chess don't give a large choice, it's difficult to vary rhythms.
10 days + 1 day per 4 moves (6 extra hours / move) could be more fair and we can avoid playoffs with the sudden death (similar to WCH knockout tournament). I like the idea of a violent, rapid and quite unfair (unrated) tournament. It could be quite popular. An advantage in a knockout (with 2 rounds) is that a few games will have to be played : 7 rounds means at most 14 games... If the number of players doesn't fit, the highest rated players could enter at stage 2. The winner could be qualified for the third stage of the WCH round-robin cycle.
But there are potential problems. I don't find a good & fair algorithm to distribute players in a big knockout (chance is not a good idea, I think), and it could be a big work to organize such a tournament (& start games regularly) with 256 players or more...
Dinesh De Silva (2006-05-15 13:53:13)
Blitz Cup
I think you're quite correct, Thibault! It seems conducting such a tourney has some practical problems. Nevertheless, it was good discussing ideas.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-06-14 13:15:33)
FICGS 1st chess world championship
Hello Heinz-Georg !
It's only a logical extension to the rule that divide the championship in a round-robin and a knockout (for the 8 best rated players) tournament. Of course, there's no rule that fit to everyone, only choices... I hope to make the most balanced ones for the whole site.
By this rule, high rated players have a stage less to play (that they would probably win) and it limits the rating gaps (otherwise it would be more like a cup). In most wch competitions, winners and high rated players/teams are qualified for an advanced stage in the tournament.. A quite common and logical system, used everywhere from football world cup [winner qualified for quarter final] to Roland-Garros [qualifications stage], FIDE world championship etc... 2300 rule is a statistical choice, used in IECG too with more parameters. (nevertheless at IECG high rated players can choose to play the first stage too, but IMO it's quite complicate)
I hope to make it as simple and attractive as possible, believe me ;) Of course (and it is mentioned in the rules- preliminaries) rules could still evolve if improvements are decided by the [future] council.
The only negative point is, indeed, only 2300+ players can play the 1st wch, that is in a way not a "complete" championship. But compared to all other positive points (first, everyone can play now), and as 2nd wch starts at the same time, I think this choice is best.
What I think to do is to send all tournament tables to players who registered on 2006 june 16. If finally there are players who don't want to play it, they'll just have to tell me within days, responding by email. It should avoid any forfeit.
Amir Bagheri (2006-06-23 12:26:28)
Blinfolded chess ( part II )
Very recently, however, all the honors of Europe, in this department of indoor games, have been run away with by two young Americans, Morphy and Paulsen. Paul Morphy, a native of New Orleans, seemed to be born with chess in his blood; he played almost from childhood; and at thirteen years of age he proved a formidable antagonist to Herr Lowenthal, a noted Hungarian. In 1857, when just twenty years of age, Morphy encountered Paulsen, a native of Iowa, only a little older than himself, at a chess congress in New Orleans (Editor: It was New York!). All the gray-beards struck their flag to Paulsen, and then he struck to Morphy. Of Morphy's subsequent achievements in regular play, which stamp him as perhaps the first living chess-player (we say this with fear and trembling; however, for the knights of the game are a sensitive race), we will not speak here, for our purpose is only to notice the blindfold performances. At the chess congress above mentioned, he finely played a blindfold game with a leading German player. Early in 1858, he struck the New Orleanists with amazement by playing six games simultaneously, without seeing any other the boards; winning five of them, and exhibiting beautiful play throughout. He then came to Europe, not only to "lick the Britishers," but "all creation;" and it must be admitted that he made great progress towards that achievement. At a meeting of the Chess Association at Birmingham, in August 1858, he played eight games simultaneously, without sight of the boards. His opponents were Lord Lyttelton, and seven other persons, mostly presidents or secretaries of provincial chess clubs. Against such players, and under such tremendous conditions, he won no less than six games out of the eight, drawing a seventh, and losing the eighth. In the following month, he went over and astonished the Parisians in a similar way; he contended blindfold against eight practised players at once, at the Cafe de la Regence, a famous resort of chess-players; and out of these did not lose even one; he was the victor in six, and drew the other two. In the spring of 1859, Morphy contended against eight of the most experienced members of the London Chess Club, including Mr. Mongredien and Mr. Walker, two distinguished players. He won two games, and drew the other six--all the players except himself being wearied out by a very protracted sitting. A few days afterwards, he played with eight members of the St. George's Chess Club, including Lord Cremorne, Lord Arthur Hay, and Captain Kennedy; he won five, and the rest were drawn through want of time to finish them. Nevertheless, inconceivable as these mental labors are, Morphy yields to Paulsen in blindfold play. There are whispers of twelve or fifteen games having been tried simultaneously by the latter; but the number ten has been most certainly reached, under conditions of the utmost publicity. On the 7th of October in the present year, at a Divan in the Strand, ten players accepted Mr. Paulsen's challenge to grapple with them all simultaneously, the boards being placed out of his sight. One of the players was M. Sabouroff, secretary to the Russian Embassy in London; the other nine comprised many names well known among chess-players. Ten chess-boards were placed on ten tables in the room. An arm-chair, turned away towards a window, was mounted on a dais. At two o'clock in the afternoon, Mr. Paulsen, a quiet, courteous young man, with not a trace of "brag" in him, took his seat in this arm-chair. For twelve mortal hours he never rose, never ate, never smoked, and drank nothing but a little lemonade. What were his mental labors during that time, we shall see. His ten antagonists took their seats at the ten tables; and each table speedily became the centre of a group of spectators, whose comments were not always so silent as in fairness they ought to have been. Paulsen could not see any of the chess-boards. Herr Kling, a noted player and teacher of chess, acted as general manager. He called the boards by numbers--No. 1 to No. 10. Paulsen audibly announced his first move for board No. 1; Kling made that move; the antagonist replied to it; Kling audibly announced the reply; Paulsen considered what should be his second move, and when he had audibly announced his decision, Kling made the proper move on the board. Here No. 1 rested for awhile. No. 2 now made his move, leading to the same course of proceeding as before. Then No. 3 in the same way; then No. 4; and so on to No. 10; after which No. 1 began a new cycle, by playing a second move; and thus they proceeded over and over again. Now let us see what all this implies and involves. Chess is not one of the most frolicsome of games; indeed, ladies generally declare it to be very dull, seeing that a chess-player is apt to be "grumpy" if spoken to on other matters while playing. The truth is, there is a demand for much mental work in managing a game well; the combinations and subtleties, the attacks and counter-attacks, are so numerous and varied, as to keep the mind pretty fully occupied. Nevertheless, a fine game between two fine players is mere child's play compared with this wonderful achievement of Paulsen. He was obliged to form ten mental pictures; and every picture changed with every move, like the colored bits in a kaleidoscope. Most persons, even though knowing nothing of the game, are aware that it begins with thirty-two pieces of different colors and forms, and that these move about over a board of sixty-four squares. After every change of position in any one of the pieces, Paulsen must have changed his mental picture of the board, the field of battle, and then made that a fixture until the next move was made. This is hard enough in even one game, against an antagonist who has his eyes to help him in planning attacks and defences; but how hard must it be against ten! It is difficult to conceive what is the condition of the mental machinery under such circumstances; and yet, there he sat, the calmest man in the room. When told of his antagonist's doings, one by one, he looked quietly out of window, and rubbed his chin, as a man often does when thinking, and then announced his move--never mistaking No. 1 for No. 7, No. 9 for No. 3--never failing to recover the proper mental picture, and making the proper change in it; never embarrassed; never making an unlawful move, or likely to lose sight (mental sight) of any unlawful move made by his antagonists. Nor did he obtain the least pause for mental rest. Without one minute's interval, as soon as he had announced a move for one board, he was required to attend to the move of another antagonist at another board. Hour after hour did this continue--all the afternoon, all the evening, midnight, until two in the morning. He made two hundred and seventy moves in the twelve hours, twenty-seven per game average; this gave two minutes and a quarter for the consideration of each move. As all his moves were met by corresponding moves on the part of his antagonists, he was called upon to form five hundred and forty complete mental pictures in twelve consecutive hours, each picture representing the exact mode in which all of the sixty-four squares of a chess-board were occupied. Paulsen won two games, lost three, and drew five.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-07-02 13:45:21)
Football world cup :-)
No, not another chess forum spammed with this chancy game (but it has to be said : France 1 - Brazil 0 ..)
Just wanted to share this french treasure :)
http://www.football365.fr/cdm2006/story_123272_Girls.shtml
Rodrigo Jaroszewski (2006-07-02 23:58:24)
Re: Football world cup :-)
It was a victory that really teaches something. While the Brazilian squad tried to hide itself from their obvious flaws, masking them behind big names, France faced its problems, fixed them, and is very close of being a great team. A really classy victory for the French. Perhaps the bit of motivation they needed to achieve greater things. ;)
Marc Lacrosse (2006-07-10 15:04:46)
Football world cup :-(
cher Monsieur Muller ...
N'y-a-t-il pas un seul endroit sur le web où on puisse échapper à cette footballistique obsession ...
... et à ces leçons de morale bon marché sur fond de jeux de ballon??
Si vous étiez italien ou français, passe encore... mais vous êtes belge, en plus.
Qu'est-ce que votre commentaire a à faire ici et en quoi peut-il intéresser quiconque ?
Faites-le plutôt sur
www. FanaDeFootMoralDésappointé.com
ou sur
www.AQuIlEstBonDeChambrerLesFrançais.com,
par exemple ...
... mais la leçon élémentaire de moralité publique à deux sous à base de coupe du monde sur des forums d'échecs moi, pour parler clairement, j'en ai déjà eu ma dose jusqu'à l'écoeurement ...
.. et j'espère que ça ne va pas continuer à polluer longtemps encore ce forum-ci comme tant d'autres!
Henri-Louis Muller (2006-07-12 09:19:01)
foorball world cup
On est quand même sur un forum où TOUTES les idées peuvent être débatues. Que l'on soit belge, français ou autre !!C'est du moins ce que je pensais ! En ce qui me concerne, l'incident est clos ( ici du moins !!) et je rejoins les observation pertinentes de Thibault ! Bonnes parties....d'échecs à tous !
Henri-Louis Muller (2006-07-12 09:27:38)
Football world cup
Cher Monsieur Lacrosse, Je pense que même un Belge peut avoir son opinion sur le sujet !!??.... sur un forum, quel qu'il soit. Mais je ne désire pas poursuivre cette polémique ni répondre à une provocation. Bonnes parties....d'échecs !
Graham Wyborn (2006-08-01 23:53:22)
England not a country?
England is not a country!! What is it then? In the football world cup, we played as England, not United Kingdom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_terminology part of which is quoted above. "England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland = constituent countries of the United Kingdom." It is like saying France, England and many other countries belong to the EU, therefore all EU countries should have the EU flag, not there home country. I would prefer the English flag, but I can live with the Union Jack flag.
Mikhail Ruzin (2007-04-09 19:24:34)
Go : Pro vs Amateur on Japanese Agon Cup
Mace Li on go4go wrote: "A contributor sent me quite a few game records from Japanese Agon Cup, the only tournament that reserve some seats for amateur players. The amaturs are doing extremely well!" ... The game records: http://www.go4go.net/v2/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=217&forum=6&post_id=864#forumpost864
Thibault de Vassal (2007-04-21 10:08:48)
WCH Stage 1 rules
Hello Achim.
I understand, it may look really difficult at first sight, the ideas behind this are first to make cycles not too long in order to organize a new one every 6 months (so you have more chances), second to have best chances to find the very best players in the final stages - this is the aim of a championship IMO.
Anyway, that's right the fight is often between the 3 top-rated players in these groups. So the easiest way : To get a good rating first (at least you can win some points in these groups).
It could be great to organize another event (like a cup) with different rules. Waiting for more players :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-05-03 01:17:03)
sb tie breaks
"The higher rated player in a group is not always the best player"... I agree of course, no rule can say surely who is the best player at a particular moment or period (in this case I meant during a quite long period), it's a question of probability only !
Ok... In my opinion these WCH rules are great, different and shouldn't be changed. However there should be a Cup multi-stage tournament with different rules to give equal chances to everyone, also a new section for double round-robin tournaments. I must 'finish to' launch money tournaments, attract more players after that, then it could be done...
Don Burden (2007-05-11 02:32:13)
Chinese thoughts
Confucius could give answer to that, unfortunately Confucius not here at moment.
Kindness in heart better than gold in bank.
Truth like football, receive many kicks before reaching goal.
Politeness golden key that open many doors.
Any powder that kills flea is good powder.
Knowledge only gained through curiousity.
Man without relatives is man without trouble.
Sleep only escape from yesterday.
Do not challenge supernatural unless armed with sword of truth.
To destroy false prophet must first unmask him before eyes of believers.
When fear attack brain, tongue wave distress signal.
Drop of plain water on thirsty tongue more precious than gold in purse.
Thought at present like dog chasing own tail, getting noplace.
When money talk, few are deaf.
Humility only defense against rightful blame.
Luck happy combination of foolish accidents.
Alibi have habit of disappearing like hole in water.
Good fisherman, like clever merchant, know lure of bright colors.
Man without enemies like dog without fleas.
Front seldom tell truth, to know occupant of house always look in backyard.
One small wind can raise much dust.
Caution sometimes mother of suspicion. Suspicion often father of truth.
Don Groves (2007-06-11 08:21:25)
Go scoring
Hi Mladen -- Here, it counts the Chinese way (total area occupied, including stones) and always has. -- Don
Thibault de Vassal (2007-06-14 18:14:03)
Rybka 2.3.2
Just after President's cup "Ultimate computer challenge" finished, Vasik Rajlich threw a new Rybka 2.3.2 in the chess engines arena... (partly explains the $100,000 challenge to Ilyumzhinov a few weeks ago)
Once more, Rybka 2.3.2 seems stronger than her predecessors with indcredible results (blitz time control) against Hiarcs 11.1, Zap chess Zanzibar, Shredder and so on... Maybe +35 elo points compared to Rybka 2.3.1 !
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=1264#fp
http://www.rybkachess.com
Thibault de Vassal (2007-06-23 18:12:34)
FICGS freestyle cup
Hello to all.
You may have noticed new changes in the waiting lists & tournaments pages. Trying to create more interesting tournaments with entry fee & prize, with different time controls.
The FICGS chess freestyle cup (I did not find a better name yet :)) will be a 6 rounds swiss tournament played from time to time (every month would be great) at a very fast time control : 10 minutes + 20 seconds / move, see the rules in the tournament page in waiting lists. All rounds will be played the same day, about 1 round per hour.
Blitz tournaments have been gathered with lightning ones under the category advanced chess lightning tournaments.
Feel free if you have any idea or suggestion !
Alexander Shalamanov (2007-06-28 08:35:41)
FICGS Chess World Championship
Hello dear chessfriends, I regret to inform all of you that, due to lack of time because of my involvement in the Russian Team Cup Final and a lot of time needed to analyse my remaining games there, I find it utterly impossible to play in the global championship on this server. I have to make this move reluctantly, but the circumstances are above me. I might return back later when I have more free time. Hopefully, you will understand why I took this decision. Amici sumus! Alexander
Jason Repa (2007-07-15 20:45:57)
Hillarious!
This is your "argument"? You copy and paste some drivel where they seem to substitute the word "skill" with "intelligence", or perhaps you did that.
You don't provide any sources or qualifications of the author whatsoever.
This is too entertaining and unbelievable to make up!!
in a statement signed by 52 psychologists, published in the December 13, 1994 Wall Street Journal
"1. Intelligence exists as a very general mental capability involving ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. The brain processes involved are little understood.
2. Intelligence can be measured, and IQ tests measure it well. Nonverbal tests can be used where language skills are weak.
3. IQ tests are not culturally biased.
4. IQ is more strongly related than any other measurable human trait to educational, occupational, economic, and social outcomes. Whatever it is that IQ tests measure, it is very important.
5. Genetics plays a bigger role than environment in intelligence, but environment has a strong effect.
6. Individuals are not born with an unchangeable IQ, but it gradually stabilizes during childhood and changes little thereafter."
I think 52 psychologists might be a bit more qualified than the random blog where you copied and pasted from.
Garvin Gray (2007-07-26 05:01:18)
too fast, too hard
I have a recommendation that the time control be extended. 10 min + 20 secs is too short.
I played one game with this time control to try it out and found that it just felt like a 5 min blitz game, especially since we have to scroll down to confirm our moves.
I agree that another way has to be found to allow people to put money into their accounts. It took me three days because I had to wait for notification of the exact euro amount.
If I wasnt keen on entering the freestyle cup, I probably would not have bothered.
Charlie Neil (2007-08-10 19:06:19)
Real Names
"Play the board not the man!" Is that not an old proverb? I play on another site, (or two) under a nickname. Chess should be fun and then a serious sport/game/art/science, Morozevitch and those like him play on those sites for 'fun'. And they relish the anonymity. Every large tournament will see a corner occupied with players having 'fun' blitz games between rounds. Legends such as M Tal, Karpov even Fischer had their 'fun' games. (Sorry for calling Tolya a Legend, but he is a living legend.) We all come here for our own reasons but mostly to play chess, (and Go) We know when we sign up here it must be on our real names. What's the problem? Some Websites charge a Fee, ICC for example. Ficgs doesn't.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-02 12:07:21)
Freestyle cup...
End of holidays, I'll make my possible in the next few days to promote this new tournament. Patience :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-06 21:00:47)
Rugby World Cup 2007
The Rugby World Cup 2007 starts these days in France... Who will be able to win this great tournament according to you ? .. All Blacks of New-Zealand, England, France, Australia... ?
France has a good chance IMO :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-21 14:52:53)
60 minutes + 15 seconds
Ok Garvin, you convinced me :) .. Finally it will be play on 2 consecutive days (october 20 & 21 - 14 pm, 17 pm, 20 pm)
This format is longer but definitely more interesting.
I'll start (at last) to promote it today, feel free to announce it in forums & websites :) .. Now FICGS account at Paypal is available to send & receive money.
I'll start a new topic about Freestyle cup... Too many out-of-date informations in this one.
Thanks for your help !
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-24 02:13:51)
1st FICGS freestyle cup
Dear chessfriends,
The 1st FICGS freestyle cup waiting list is open ! .. This advanced chess or more commonly said "freestyle" (computers, teams, everything allowed) swiss tournament will happen on 2007 October 20 & 21 (14 pm, 17 pm, 20 pm server time), time control : 1 hour + 15 seconds / move. Entry fee is 10 E-Points (10 Euros), prize is 100% of E-Points (see rules/membership).
Thanks to players who broadcasted the news on the web already !
Tano-Urayoan Russi Roman (2007-09-28 00:36:03)
Comment
This remark was made by past freestyle winner Equidistance in the rybka forum: "This FICGS site is very unclear, impossible to find anything. No clear summary about what these e-points are all about, very long terms and conditions, really I doubt anybody will spend so much time to even find the page about Freestyle Cup, which is hidden under one of many menus." Maybe navigation could be made easier for new players interested in the tournament.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-28 02:56:48)
E-Points
A summary about E-Points has been added to the terms and conditions :
http://www.ficgs.com/membership.html#epoints
"E-Points : To summarize previous Entry fees and Prize money sections, you can buy E-Points (1 E-Point is worth 1 Euro, see My account after you connect to the server) then play money tournaments with entry fees and prizes (bronze, silver, gold) with low rakes in E-Points, finally ask for money prizes instead of E-Points for the tournaments you choose : According to the prize won, you'll be paid 0,75 Euro per E-Point remaining in your account. Consequently the more tournaments you play before to ask for a money prize, the lower is the cost per game (prizes in E-Points reach up to 99 % of the entry fees, 100 % for the chess freestyle cup)."
Feel free to tell me if it is not clear enough... I've also updated the Help section about how to enter the freestyle cup & E-Points.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-28 03:01:14)
Invitation to FIDE, FICGS, ICCF GM & IM
Just added to the FICGS chess freestyle cup rules :
"FIDE GM & IM, FICGS / ICCF GM, SM & IM are invited to enter the waiting list for free until one week before the start of the tournament ! .. Please just send a message to webmaster through My account page to register. You may be asked to send a copy of your passport or ID card."
Strong titled players may be interested in winning the title & prize, other players may be interested in playing them...
Garvin Gray (2007-09-30 11:31:11)
new entrant
A third entrant to the freestyle cup
:)
Was starting to think it was
going to be a six game match between Thibault and myself :P
Welcome to the tournament Michael
Will Ilmars be entering?
Thibault de Vassal (2007-10-12 22:11:47)
Reminder : Invitation to GM, SM, IM
"FIDE GM & IM, FICGS / ICCF GM, SM & IM are invited to enter the Freestyle Cup waiting list for free until one week before the start of the tournament ! .. Please just send a message to webmaster through My account page to register. You may be asked to send a copy of your passport or ID card."
One more day for titled players to register for free !
Thibault de Vassal (2007-10-13 19:17:27)
Freestyle tournament
A new player may enter the Freestyle Cup waiting list soon... So we'll be at least 8 players, anyway only 6 rounds will be played, I can't change the rules now.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-10-17 02:42:45)
2 more entries
Two international masters will probably enter the waiting list soon. If other titled players want to enter the Freestyle Cup waiting list for free, please just contact me.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-10-19 22:18:09)
Freestyle cup starts tomorrow, 2 pm.
10 players entered the waiting list !
As we still need more players, titled players (GM, SM, IM) may register for free until saturday 1 pm. server time, please email me. Prize is 80 E-Points at the moment.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-10-21 01:07:45)
Go freestyle tournament
What do you think about a Go freestyle tournament, just like FICGS chess freestyle cup ?
A problem is to define the best time control and number of rounds... With about 100 to 120 moves per game & per player, time control 30+10 means 2 hours per round. As there's no draw at Go, 5 or 6 rounds played in a single day could be ok to find a winner. Any opinion ?
Another question is : Are there players interested to play it ? .. Entry fee would be 10 E-Points / 10 Euros, prize 100% entry fees in E-Points (or 75% for a money prize). It may attract some strong players for interesting games :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-10-21 22:35:06)
Eros Riccio wins 1st FICGS freestyle !
SIM Eros Riccio completely stunned the tournament, very well prepared with White & Black on this interesting sicilian line : 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 Qb6 8.Qd2 Qxb2 9.Rb1 Qa3 10.e5
Final score for Eros : 5 / 6 .. Congratulations :)
See results and games :
http://www.ficgs.com/tournament_FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000001.html
Thibault de Vassal (2007-10-23 02:59:46)
Time zones
I'm to add the waiting list, Go "freestyle" cup will be a 6 rounds swiss tournament... Chess & Go freestyle tournaments will occur at the same time. Rounds will start at 15:00, 18:00, 21:00 server time on 2 consecutive days.
Time zones are a problem for players from ie. New Zealand, but it should be ok for players from Moscow to New-York.
Time control will be 1 hour + 10 seconds per move.
Edwin Dabbaghyan (2007-10-25 00:57:27)
freestyle on FICGS
Hello all :) I am a bit confused in here...I see two freestyle tours, one "cup" and one "go" freestyle... what are the differences? and I would like to write my view about the freestyle time control, as it was an issue on the forum I guess... I think we can have two forms of freestyle tours here: one 30+15 with more rounds every time, and one with absolutely longer time controls, like 90+30 with fewer rounds... . A knockout freestyle tournament is also very exciting with 30+15 time controls, in each round best of 3 games goes to next round, and in the third round the player with white pieces has less time, say 10 minutes less. I hope freestyle tours will be more popular and successful on this server, I like here :) regards Edwin
Thibault de Vassal (2007-10-25 01:17:16)
Go freestyle cup
Hi Edwin, this topic is about the Go (another game) freestyle cup. See both chess & Go freestyle cups in Waiting lists. Anyway, I'm already thinking about faster chess freestyle tournaments :)
Knockout format could be lots of fun too, but players will probably prefer to play all the games to try to catch the best ones.
Let's discuss about the chess freestyle tournaments in the other thread :
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=3987
William Taylor (2007-10-25 16:29:24)
Chess and go at the same time?
Why have you decided to hold chess and go freestyle cups at the same time? I'd expect this to reduce participation in both events, as obviously nobody can play in both.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-11-04 15:32:57)
Swiss tournaments
Hello Michael, more rounds probably means less players and less tournaments (freestyle cups), it is a quite hard format, also for the organizer :)
By the way, why 20 players ? An advantage of swiss system is it doesn't depend on the number of participants.
Michael Mueller-Toepler (2007-11-06 16:28:01)
FICGS freestyle cup
For more players: The winner is qualified for: FICGS__CHESS__WORLD_CHAMPIONSHIP__000004 Regards Michael - muetoe
Thibault de Vassal (2007-11-06 16:59:11)
FICGS freestyle cup
That's an idea... and it could work but I'm not sure it is good to melt freestyle chess & correspondence chess results. Anyway, your suggestions are welcome :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-11-09 01:05:28)
Chess sponsorship
An interesting discussion about chess sponsorship started on ChessDiscussions.com (Susan Polgar forums)
http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=504
Several issues : "How to bring chess to the masses ?", "How to make chess a show ?", "What kind of sponsorship is possible ?"
Susan obviously thinks that OTB chess still has a great potential and that organizations could do much better to promote it... Here's my last response in the thread (reminds some old threads here) :
<<<
In other words, you say that chess has a show-potential like any other sport that could be used and that isn't...
For sure traditional marketing methods could help to promote OTB chess, and chess organizations could do much better... but is chess "bankable", just like an actor ? .. I just saw one more comparison between chess & poker in the thread "How to bring chess to the masses", but there's a major problem in chess that doesn't exist in poker or soccer : "everything can't happen", at least at a first sight, actually the way people can see it...
FIDE tried to change some things, ie. time controls, wch cycle but that's not enough, obviously. Anyone can win a lost hand at texas hold'em against any professional player, like any 2nd division soccer team can beat the Real Madrid once... Of course long-time statistics will be always favourable to the best players, but it takes a much longer time... Everything can happen in any event in these games (poker wch, soccer world cup). The probability for a real surprise that makes buzz is much lower at chess, the same best players invariably play the best tournaments, won statistically (ie.) 20% by Anand, 19% by Topalov, 18% by Kramnik and so on... quite boring.
The only interesting chess events follow the same scheme : David vs. Goliath, the buzz-genius 12 boy vs. Kramnik, mystery-Deep Blue vs. Kasparov, Anna Kournikova vs. Fischer & so on... nowadays the man vs. machine match is no more interesting since any home computer is stronger than HAL 9000 or Kramnik and there's no clear world champion (too many FIDE wch, different cycles..)
Chess needs real events and I'm curious to see the ones "that could bring chess to the masses" in the future... Maybe I'm a bit pessimistic, at least for OTB chess, but I'm very interested to see how good marketing methods will be able to transform our chess world... Just wait, hope & see :)
Best regards, Thibault
>>>
I'm now working again on SEO (Search Engines Optimization) for FICGS, more and more players find us via Google... Of course one next step is to sponsor the FICGS WCH & freestyle tournaments but it is a hard task for sure... All comment and suggestions on this issue are welcome :)
Garvin Gray (2007-11-11 07:45:23)
promotion
Time to start promoting the 2nd freestyle cup :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-11-11 17:53:24)
2nd FICGS chess freestyle
The 2nd FICGS chess freestyle cup waiting list is open. This 6 rounds swiss tournament will start on november 24, 15:00 server time. Time control is 1 hour + 15 seconds / move. Entry fee is 10 E-Points (10 Euro). Prize is 100% of the entry fees in E-Points.
FIDE GM & IM, FICGS / ICCF GM, SM & IM are invited to enter the waiting list for free, please just send a message to webmaster through My account page to register (you may be asked to send a copy of your passport or ID card).
Definitely we need strong players to rivalize with SIM Eros Riccio :)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-11-27 22:37:57)
Baduk and chance : 1dan in LG cup final
A Go player ranked 1 dan is about 800 elo points below a 9 dan player (whatever the ranking system ?!), meaning about no chance to win a game against such an opponent, right ?! .. How is it possible to see a 1 dan player at this level in one of the main Go tournaments in the world ?
Of course everything can happen in a Go game, but I suppose it is not the case during a whole tournament...
From IGN Goama newsletter - http://gogame.info
"An interview with Han Sanghoon, 1-dan, the first 1-dan in Go history, who entered the final match of the World Go Championship (LG cup)
- Congratulations! What was the most difficult game in this tournament?
- The last one with On Sojin, 4-dan. It was really close finally and I think, that I was slightly behind until the endgame stage
- You became a professional about 1 year ago. Did you think that you can reach the final match of the World Go Championship so quickly?
- I remember that it was very hard to become a professional. I was almost 18 and it was my last chance to win the qualification among inseis. Of course, I did not think, that I can show good results quickly. I was surprised, that professional tournaments are not much harder than the insei league :)
- What are your weakest and strongest parts in Go?
- I am weak at the opening, but I feel myself confident in middlegame fights. Usually I try to defend my groups solidly, before fighting
- Who is the hardest opponent for you?
- Yun Junsang, 6-dan. I lost him twice and feel that he is much stronger than me. Also his Go style is very impressive
- What do you think about your final match with Lee Sedol, 9-dan. How big are your chances?
- I never played him before, but I saw lot of his game records and I know that Lee Sedol, 9-dan is much stronger than me. Any way, I will try to win the match! Usually I am not afraid of the star opponents at all!"
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-14 15:40:44)
Tablebases on R+B vs. N+N
Good to know this endgame (Rook + Bishop wins against 2 Knights in 150 to 220 moves in the longest cases - tablebases 6 pieces), as there's no draw granted after 50 moves without any capture according to FICGS rules.
Karjakin, Sergey (2694) - Shirov, Alexei (2739)
World Cup Khanty-Mansiysk RUS (6.3), 11.12.2007
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4322
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-17 02:42:31)
FIDE world cup / WCH
Gata Kamsky (2714) just won the FIDE world cup final match against Alexei Shirov (2739) : 2.5 - 1.5 in Khanty-Mansiysk (Russia).
According to a recent FIDE rule, he should challenge the former world champion : Veselin Topalov. So he may play the reigning world champion after that (if he wins of course, if Anand keeps his title until there and if I understood well, not sure). Okokok...
Dan Rotaru (2007-12-17 17:41:55)
FICGS World Cup
Hi Thibault, What is the difference between FICGS__CHESS__WCH_TOURNAMENTS and FICGS__CHESS__WORLD_CHAMPIONSHIP ? Is the latest supposed to be a Knock-out tournament? There are no games displayed under this on the Tournaments page. Anyway a knock-out tournament would be interesting. Something like the FIDE World Cup.
Dinesh De Silva (2007-12-20 11:11:23)
Re:
Thibault, as though spake with a truly righteous tongue, I conform to thy suggestion. Henceforth the cup of mirth overfloweth.
Thibault de Vassal (2008-03-24 19:11:34)
FICGS 2nd Freestyle Cup
The tournament will be played on April 6, 2008.
All questions and feedback are welcome here.
Thibault de Vassal (2008-03-30 07:25:30)
Freestyle cup : Rules & start
There was a small conflict in the rules, now corrected : The first game will start at 13:00 server time, not 15:00
Current rules :
FICGS advanced chess "freestyle" cup is a 6 rounds swiss tournament with entry fee and prize, played in a single day. Entry fees are E-Points that you can buy in 'My account'. Read carefully terms and conditions, particularly Entry fees & Prize money sections before to play tournaments with entry fees.
All games are played in 30 minutes + 15 seconds / move. Norms are not possible.
The first round will start at the date and hour (13:00 server time) indicated as "deadline". Next rounds will start at 15:00, 17:00, 19:00, 21:00 and 23:00 server time. Please register carefully as it is not possible to retire from the waiting list. It is strongly recommended to display the chat bar to communicate with the tournament director.
If several players obtain the best score and the best Sonnenborn-Berger, they will share the prize. It is possible to forfeit all next games (that will be unrated for the advanced chess rating list) during the tournament.
FIDE GM & IM, FICGS / ICCF GM, SM & IM are invited to enter the waiting list for free.. Please just send a message to webmaster through My account page to register. You may be asked to send a copy of your passport or ID card. The tournament might be cancelled if less than 7 players registered before the deadline, in this case entry fees will be given back to the players.
An extra fee, usually 30% of the entry fee, will be added to the entry fee 2 days before the start of the tournament.
Thibault de Vassal (2008-04-05 02:43:40)
FICGS 2nd Freestyle Cup
Obviously the tournament won't probably be really interesting before I can sponsorize it and find additionnal sponsors... Ok, I'll make some important changes during the next weeks, this 2nd freestyle won't start this time again, we need more time anyway. Sorry and many thanks to the players who entered the waiting list !
Jason Repa (2008-05-04 11:54:53)
Lasker Variation of the From's Gambit
One correction. My comment about 5...Nc6?? 6.Bxg5 was from the line:
1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6 4.Nf3 g5 5.d4
But I still don't believe that 5...Nc6 holds any more promise than 5...g4, even from: 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6 4.Nf3 g5 5.g3. The reason 4...g5 is played is to play to "g4" and dislodge the knight on f3. I don't believe delaying "g4" is going to benefit Black, as was evidenced in:
Malaniuk,Vladimir P (2600) - Tseshkovsky,Vitaly (2510) [A02] RUS-Cup Krasnodar (3), 1998 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6 4.Nf3 g5 5.g3 Nc6 6.c3 g4 7.Nh4 f5 8.d4 f4 9.Qd3 Nf6 10.Bxf4 Bxf4 11.gxf4 0-0 12.Nd2 Be6 13.0-0-0 Bxa2 14.h3 Nd5 15.Ng2 Qe7 16.hxg4 Rad8 17.e3 Rd6 18.Rh5 Ncb4 19.Qe4 Qd7 20.Bb5 c6 21.Bc4 Bxc4 22.Nxc4 Nf6 23.Rg5+ Kh8 24.Qf5 Nbd5 25.Nxd6 Qxd6 26.Rh1 c5 27.Nh4 1-0
Andrew Stephenson (2008-05-15 04:10:11)
Openings
Hi Hannes I think the Modern Benoni is playable but needs a lot of work. Hector Walsh 16th on the IECG list (2497) used it in the IECG Cup 2002 final (just ended!) with games that started in 2006. He played it 3 times including the critical line 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c5 4 d5 exd5 5 cxd5 d6 6 e4 g6 7 f4 etc and got 3 draws against opposition of 2150, 2300 and 2400.
Graham Cridland (2008-06-05 00:18:34)
Warren Buffett again
"If markets were efficient, I'd be a bum with a tin cup."
Andrew Stephenson (2008-11-03 10:47:42)
Free style cup games...
...are not linked to wikichess which is a shame because there are some very important theoretical games there!
Thibault de Vassal (2008-11-03 13:13:53)
Freestyle cup games
Hi Andrew, which games & wikichess articles are you refering to ? As Wikichess does not have hashtables yet, a transposition may hide some games.
Thibault de Vassal (2008-11-24 14:50:09)
Poker Holdem game duration
Well... as a correspondence poker holdem game may last about 500 moves at most, it is quite complicated to think about a multi stages tournament that would last 3 or 4 years... I think the current formula (looking like the Go championship) will be the one... waiting for a Poker freestyle cup :)
Normajean Yates (2008-11-25 04:10:26)
a 1433 - character chess-engine!
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/umax1_6.c
If deciphering *a little bit* obscure C code is not your cup of tea, explanations are at:
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.g.muller/max-src2.html
Thibault de Vassal (2008-12-12 15:56:50)
Now Michael Adams...
Open Letter from Michael Adams
"I have regretfully withdrawn from the whole Grand Prix series. Some of the reasons I took this decision are the sudden switch of venues at very late notice, the replacement of players whose results thus far will affect the results of the whole Grand Prix both in terms of prize money and World Championship qualification and the fact that when I made my decision the status of some of the future GP events was still unclear.
The changes to the World Championship cycle also concern me as making major changes to a cycle in progress in such a sudden manner is very undesirable. There also seems to be no guarantee that further changes will not be made in a similar manner in the future. The changes are obviously immediately very negative for all Grand Prix participants but also in general it seems to me that the rewards for success in such tough events as the Grand Prix or the World Cup are now much too minimal."
Michael Adams
11th December 2008
Next ?
Don Groves (2009-01-04 01:35:56)
FIDE or FIFA...
... what's the difference?
The FIFA World Cup champion gets no special privileges in the next cup challenge, why should the FIDE World Champion?
Thibault de Vassal (2009-01-04 14:06:51)
FIDE or FIFA
Salut Don !
FIFA has not the biggest problems FIDE has :
1) There are only about a hundred of participants in the world cup before the preliminary tournaments already.
2) A dozen of these participants are stars and will remain the stars, just like clubs in each country, and it is unlikely to change (one reason is money of course but there are many others). Chess, like soccer or any sport, needs stars !
The context is not the same, I don't think one can compare the FIDE & FIFA business...
Wayne Lowrance (2009-01-06 19:32:00)
Norm
Okey Dokie, I understand that problem. I will ask both of my Sons (programmars) what they think about your problem, culling tournaments for Norm achievements before tourney is complete and thus occupy cpu time. The way you now have it implemented, the culling is simple, "tournament complete" look for norms. I am a retired EE and not a programmer, but I think your evaluation is not valid. you only have to do this culling, say once a month and besides it is not that much cpu time overall. Wayne
Philip Roe (2009-02-20 14:36:04)
Complexity of Go
Don, I think the extra complexity may be more than your calculation shows.
On a Go board with 39 extra points, I think you are assuming that each extra point could be occupied by either a white stone or a black stone, giving 2 to the power 39 extra possibilities. Actually, since the extra stones need to be equally of each color, the possibilities are not quite so great. (about 2 to the power 36)
Anyway, what that calculation gives is the number of additional POSITIONS, but in calculating the number of additional GAMES the order of playing the stones must matter. On a board with n points, the number of possible games seems to be just factorial(n). In that case, going from a 19 x 19 board to a 20 x 20 board increases the number of possible games by a factor factorial(400)/factorial(361), which my computer gives as about 2 to the power 334.
I don't know enough about Go to judge how significant these numbers are, and surely various heuristics will cut them down a lot. But I thought that this observation might be worth making.
Thibault de Vassal (2009-02-25 15:37:38)
BCcard cup World Baduk Championship
Just read in the IGN Goama newsletter by Alexander Dinerchtein :
BCcard cup World Baduk Championship will be the first open tournament in Go history !
The tournament will take place in Korea, the first prize should be about $300.000 and the real point : Everyone can take part in it.
Nice to see such news in the small world of Go, I would participate for sure (just to see it) if I could :)
Thibault de Vassal (2009-03-21 19:26:53)
Slower time controls
Hello Robert,
Well, in a perfect world I would like to create another multi-stages tournament ("Cup" or something) with 40+40 days/10 moves time control. Maybe we can start it already but I'm not sure we have enough players... The same about the format. Any opinions ?
I think we should keep a fast multi-stages tournament anyway.
Denis Ivanchenkov (2009-03-29 14:14:21)
Wayne Lowrance
>By the way, Thibault if you want to increase participation, open up some faster tournament bases.
imho 1 day/move, 2 day/move or 3 day/move - these time conntrols more demanding for players.
and I'd like to suggest one more idea - so call ladder tournaments (well, this may be too complicated to develop corresponding soft - but this is just a suggestion). so the essence of such tournament is that we have "ladder" classes H (lowest), G, F, ... and A - the highest one. In the beginning all players belong to H class. And there are open 5/7/9-player tournaments starting in each class - they are just waiting until filled and then open again. each tournament is all-play-all 1 game with fast (1 d/m 2d/m 3d/m) control. When tournament is finnished the winner (or several winners in case of a tier) is promoted one class up. Similarly, the player (players) occupying the last position is demoted one class down (except for H classers). So winning the tournaments is actually a "climbing" the ladder.
this scheme was used in igame.ru and was pretty popular among players. i suggested this scheme to chess-online.ru - unfortunately they were pretty hesitant as to realization (maybe due to soft development complexity?)
Nick Burrows (2009-04-23 01:03:09)
The Lennon Olympiad
Well i don't believe that a competitive game that symbolically warfare is very much in the spirit of John Lennon in the first place.
I feel for a team competition to work there needs to be a strong theme, playing with a random collection of players to me feels like a 'meaningless' competition.
Playing by nationality is a well established theme that is used in every single competitive sport, because it creates interest - that is all. The team members immediately have something in common, and can play as if mimmicking the real thing. Just as kids playing soccer pretend to be in the world cup...
@William - To begin with there will only be enough interest for one competition, hence the extreme views. It's just a healthy dialectic weighing up the various merits. I always seem to be in the minority ;-(
Nick Burrows (2009-04-24 01:49:31)
International Competition
I disagree that international competition divides. Within the countries it unites.
The example of England v Argentina is different because of their recent political history, and because football in particular has a culture of 'yob' support. In England it was created from club football rivalry
Does the olympics divide? Or the Davis cup? Olympiad?
I believe they create something where otherwise there is nothing.
Every action is a positive action, even if it has a negative result. By definition, playing for a team implies playing against. Your win is their loss, but you shake hands and say well done - remembering that it's 'just a game'! In the process, everyones level is raised, and something worthwhile is created. Just don't take it too seriously or symbolically!
Normajean Yates (2009-04-24 03:42:02)
something to be said for both sides...
Nick, there is something to be said for both sides, I think. [In fact for points along the entire spectrum, since William Taylor called my views extreme - not without some justification :) - so I suppose there could be moderate no-country views, moderate pro-country views, centrist views, 'no opinion' views' ... :)
All I am doing is presenting my P.O.V. - I don't insist that I am right - in fact I doubt that the views I expressed are absolutely correct... I would like to see diverse shades of opinion on this, and I presented mine, and I am glad you(and others) presented theirs.
My personal 'thank you' for posting..
P.S.: I watch all the important world cup (football - that is soccer) on the telly :)
I am not *that* consistent - nobody is, I suppose...
Thibault de Vassal (2009-06-16 22:33:44)
World Go Oza canceled by sponsors
Sad news for the world of Go, the rumor was reported in GoDiscussions.com forums then confirmed by the AGA (American Go Association) : The Nihon Kiin announced that Toyota & Denso Cup World Go Oza has been canceled by sponsors. TOM news website reported that JP Morgan is discontinuing sponsorship of the Zhonghuan Cup and GoGameWorld.net reported that the Chinese NEC Cup has been canceled as well.
Looks like the economic crisis hits the small Go world also.
Nick Burrows (2009-08-05 13:13:03)
quotes
"Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water.
Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend."
- Bruce Lee
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." - Bruce Lee
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."-Mark Twain
No one should allow his mind to be a vehicle for others to use; He who does not direct his own mind lacks mastery. Ono who is looking for a reward is smaller than the reward; One who has renounced a thing has risen above it. So long as one has a longing to obtain any particular object, one cannot go further than that object.
- Hazrat Inayat Khan
Be who you are, and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. -Dr. Seuss
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
- Frank Outlaw
William Taylor (2010-06-11 15:08:41)
FICGS chess database
Hi Thib,
Would it be possible to make 2 options - a database with only correspondence games, and one including bullet/blitz/lightning/freestyle cup? (Or a database just of those games.) I think it's a good idea to have a database without them, but I for one would like the option of downloading them.
Will
Thibault de Vassal (2009-10-06 20:17:49)
2nd FICGS chess freestyle cup
Hi all,
Finally, I'll have some time to organize the 2nd FICGS chess freestyle cup during the next weeks !
The entry will be free for players rated over 2000, the prize will be 200 Epoints.
Three possibilities (swiss pairing) :
a) 6 rounds (1 hour + 15 sec/move), 2 rounds played each day - monday, tuesday, wednesday
b) 6 rounds (1 hour + 15 sec/move), 2 rounds played each day - friday, saturday, sunday
c) 6 rounds (30 minutes + 15 sec), 6 rounds played in a single day
Case a) could be organized next week or the week after, case b) couldn't be organized before about 1 month, case c) could be organized quite easily.
In cases a) & b), the best time for the daily 2 games remains to be found... IMO 8pm & 11pm server time or 1pm & 4pm server time are good choices, what do you think ?
Daniel Parmet (2009-10-06 20:43:14)
what is it?
what exactly is a freestyle cup?
Thibault de Vassal (2009-10-06 20:48:12)
Freestyle Cup
FICGS advanced chess "freestyle" cup is a 6 rounds swiss tournament... See the freestyle cup page in waiting lists for more details (some will probably change soon)
Thibault de Vassal (2009-10-07 16:03:42)
Freestyle cup dates
Hi Garvin, I mean the days of the week should be chosen "in general", for the next tournaments as well.
Well, if noone disagrees we'll play it on friday, saturday & sunday... I'll give the dates as soon as possible.
Don Groves (2010-01-27 06:01:17)
Go chinese rules : should pass count?
Since Chinese rules count occupied points as well as surrounded points, passing is a serious mistake unless that player is certain of victory (at least 184-1/2 confirmed points on FICGS).
Consecutive passes end the game, so how could the score change?
Svante Carl von Erichsen (2010-01-29 23:03:44)
Go chinese rules: should pass count?
Lazaro Munoz, the pass stones do not "penalize" anyone, they just make the score of AGA territory scoring always equal to the score of AGA area scoring. Under area scoring, failing to occupy even a "neutral" point instead of passing costs a point (unless no neutrals or an even count of neutrals is left), and this has to be reflected in the territory scoring. AGA rules thus have two exactly equivalent scoring methods.
A better explanation might be this: Under area scoring, each move is worth exactly one point more than under territory scoring, viz. the point that it occupies. Under the assumption that both players make the same number of moves (that is the reason for the rule that White always has to move last), this precisely cancels out. Since a pass is worth 0 points under area scoring, it has to be -1 points under territory scoring, which is represented by the pass stone.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-07 20:35:54)
Great day for FICGS (and for me :)) !
Hello all...
As you may know, I built the major part of FICGS with a 33 kbps (actually more looking like a 5 to 8 kbps) broadband which is very very slow, even slower than the prehistorical modems... Internet is definitely not a priority in the french campaign (by the way, looks like nothing is not a priority anymore in the french campaign)
Since today, I've got 2 Mbps anyway (thanks to WiMax and Powerline technologies), which means several things :
- Regular freestyle cups (finally !)
- New improvements more regularly.
- I can play advanced chess :)
After a few days of vacation, I should be more active on the server, definitely :)
Garvin Gray (2010-03-08 13:30:05)
Great day for FICGS (and for me :)) !
And I agree, great day for ficgs. Bring on the freestyle cups :)
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-21 01:13:54)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Dear chessfriends, the next FICGS chess freestyle cup waiting list is open until april 3. This 6 rounds swiss tournament will start on april 3, 13:00 server time (first three rounds, every 2 hours) and on april 10, 13:00 server time (last three rounds, every 2 hours). Prize is 100% of the entry fees in E-Points + 100 E-Points. FIDE GM & IM, FICGS / ICCF GM, SM & IM are invited to enter the waiting list for free, please just send a message to webmaster through My account page to register.
To enter the waiting list :
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=entry_tournament&tournament=ficgs_chess_cup
Feel free to reply here if you have any suggestions, I hope that this format (2 consecutive saturdays, 3 rounds per day) will be ok for the most !
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-21 01:15:37)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
New record for sure, Garvin entered the waiting list 20 seconds after the tournament is announced :)
Garvin Gray (2010-03-21 11:04:36)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
I think I should get free entry for that :)
Garvin Gray (2010-03-22 02:44:37)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Thibault,
I would like to propose that the competition be postponed for one week. So the playing dates are April 10 and 17. I have just realised that April 3 is the Easter weekend and I am not available.
I suspect that others will be in the same boat and so this will reduce entries.
Please change the dates to April 10/17.
Cheers,
Garvin
William Taylor (2010-03-22 12:50:15)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
The original dates are better for me, as I may be playing an OTB tournament on the 17th. That said, Garvin's desire to play in this event may be stronger than mine. ;)
Garvin Gray (2010-03-22 13:02:26)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
William, we could play on two consecutive days ie 9/10 or 10/11.
William Taylor (2010-03-22 13:14:19)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Sure, 10/11 would also be possible for me.
Garvin Gray (2010-03-23 07:12:12)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
The my messages page is showing March 3 as the starting date for the freestyle cup.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-23 11:58:43)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Damn, thanks Garvin, I have hallucinations...
William Taylor (2010-03-26 14:47:19)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
What's the planned prize structure for this tournament? Just a 1st place prize? 1st and 2nd? 1st 2nd 3rd? Or will it depend on the number of entries?
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-26 15:40:02)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Maybe I'll change that next time... The current rules are "If several players obtain the best score and the best Sonnenborn-Berger, they will share the prize.", in other words: The winner takes it all.
Garvin Gray (2010-03-26 22:54:42)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Sonnenborn-Berger is a terrible tie break and I strongly recommend that the tie break either be progressive or buchholz.
SB does not tell you much about the path a player took in the tournament (Progressive), or the strength of the opponents they played (Bucholz).
Why does there need to be a tie-break, when we are talking about first place here?
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-28 03:55:37)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Well, 6 rounds is quite few... so it may be useful IMO. But I'm not sure which tie break is best in this case.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-31 20:30:54)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
To the players who will participate to the next freestyle tournament, be sure to read the following discussion before to play :
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=8345
I recommend to practice this new option (touch move) by playing a few bullet bronze games before the tournament ;)
Michel van der Kemp (2010-04-03 16:58:45)
Weird technical problem
Thibault, thanks for organising this nice tournament. Lot of fun. I lost my first game against Xavier Pichelin, which I will totally accept, Xavier played excellent. However I do have a weird question.
About the game I receive this email:
[Event "FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000002"]
[Site "FICGS"]
[Date "2010.4.3"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Pichelin,Xavier"]
[Black "van der Kemp,Michel"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2405"]
[BlackElo "1921"]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d4 Bd6 13.Re1 Qh4 14.g3 Qh3 15.Be3 Bg4 16.Qd3 Rae8 17.Nd2 Re6 18.a4 Qh5 19.axb5 axb5 20.Qf1 Bh3 21.Bd1 Qf5 22.Qe2 c5 23.Nf3 Bf4 24.Qd2 Nxe3 25.fxe3 Bh6 26.Qf2 Rfe8 27.Bc2 Qh5 28.e4 Rf6 29.Bd1 Bg4 30.Rf1 g6 31.e5 Rf5 32.Ra5 cxd4 33.cxd4 Rc8 34.Ra3 Rc1 35.Qe2 Rb1 36.d5 Bh3 37.Qe4 Bxf1 38.Qxb1 Qh3 39.Qc2 Bc4 40.Be2 Rxf3 41.Rxf3 Bxd5 42.Bf1 Qg4 43.Rc3 Qd4+ 44.Qf2 Qxe5 45.Bg2 Bc4 46.Kh1 Bg5 47.h3 Kg7 48.Bf1 Bd5+ 49.Kh2 h5 50.Qe2 Qd6 51.Rd3 h4 52.Bg2 hxg3+ 53.Kh1 Bxg2+ 54.Kxg2 Qc6+ 55.Kxg3 Qc7+ 56.Kg2 Qc6+ 57.Rf3 f5 58.b3 Bf6 59.Qd3 1-0
Move sent : 2010.4.3 - 16:34:26
Move replied : 2010.4.3 - 16:34:55
Last move sent : g7-h7
WhiteELO : 2405 ... 2405
BlackELO : 1921 ... 1921
This email was generated automatically by http://www.ficgs.com/
It says last move send g7-h7. How did I actually lose this game if the server still received my move? The result of the game came as a little shock to me, because I thought I had about 10 seconds left when I send the move, and the server did receive it as well, and somehow registered it.
Anyway I should have been faster and accept my loss.
Garvin Gray (2010-04-05 16:43:39)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Ok a couple of issues:
When links are posted, I still get stuck in the endless loop of having to sign in again when I click on the link, instead of being able to see the linked page.
Also, would it be possible to join from round 4, possibly to replace the bye? Or is this round robin this time due to the numbers?
Garvin Gray (2010-04-06 04:17:56)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
I was asking would it be possible, I did not say that I was confirming my participation.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-04-10 00:19:35)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
The freestyle tournament will continue tomorrow!
However I must say I regularly have some connection problems with my new provider (it should be fixed in a while - according to them), so I apologize in advance if I'm late to start a round or if I have to lose another game on time :/
See you tomorrow!
Thibault de Vassal (2010-04-06 15:18:27)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Okay... anyway that's good for the rules. Also now I know that I shouldn't make pairings before the very last moment :)
Thibault de Vassal (2010-04-10 19:37:35)
Congrats to David Evans!
David Evans wins this 2nd FICGS freestyle cup!
Here are the final standings (please note that the FICGS crosstable may be slightly different from the pairing software's one) :
1. Evans, David : 4,5 / 6 games played (berg 11,75)
2-3. Petrolo, Mauro : 4 / 6 games played (berg 12,5)
2-3. Taylor, William : 4 / 5 games played (berg 9,5)
4. van der Kemp, Michel : 3,5 / 5 games played (berg 6,75)
5. Boehme, Sebastian : 3 / 5 games played (berg 6,25)
6-7. de Vassal, Thibault : 2,5 / 5 games played (berg 6)
6-7. Nichols, Scott : 2,5 / 5 games played (berg 4,25)
8. Pichelin, Xavier : 2 / 6 games played (berg 5,75)
9-10. Moreira, Jose : 1,5 / 4 games played (berg 3,5)
9-10. Gray, Garvin : 1,5 / 3 games played (berg 3,25)
Of course and unfortunately, the number of "played games" includes losses on time without playing. There were numerous problems with access providers during this tournament...
Garvin Gray (2010-04-11 12:18:37)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
For the next tournament I would like to see the time control increased to 60 + 15 or similar. I found this time control way too fast for decent freestyle play.
William Taylor (2010-04-11 14:19:39)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Not sure I agree with Garvin about the time control. I liked the fact that we could play 3 games (often of decent quality IMO) and still not use up an entire day.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-04-11 15:31:25)
Freestyle Cup: Time control
The point is IMO would a longer time control mean more draws ? In another hand the less we have time, the less risks we take (or not!?) to create interesting positions and a longer time control may mean more brain/instinct and less chess engines in the games...
To be discussed again and again.
Garvin Gray (2010-04-11 16:18:23)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
It may or may not lead to more draws, this I do not know. But what it will do is allow more time for analysis and human decisions ie centaur play, which I think is the main part of freestyle and one of the main reasons we all participate in these competitions.
If the time control is too fast to allow decent analysis, then each game is just engine v engine with different computing speeds as a variable.
This whole issue could be viewed also as each freestyle comp will have slightly different paramaters to try and satisfy most people's taste.
Scott Nichols (2010-04-12 03:59:40)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
First of all, thanks to Thibault for having this tournament. I have some ideas for the next one for us to kick around. First and foremost we know the connection issues need to be resolved. Second, the time control. I've played both 30 & 60 minutes with 15 second increments and my preference would be the 60+15, but 30+15 is ok also, not a big deal for me. As for the time to have it, (days of the week, hour of the day), I think there is no way to satisfy everyone because of the wide range of time zones, so you just have to make a time and we will find a way to make it. -----The main new idea I have is to make it an open tournament. This means anyone can join, but only those who pay the entry fee will be eligible for prizes. The reason is to get many more players involved, but only the highest entry-paying player will win prize money. Since there are far more players here without any E-points than those with. It might even inspire more to buy points.
Garvin Gray (2010-04-12 06:02:19)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
I would certainly prefer only one or two games per night a longer time control.
I am strongly against the idea of allowing free entries whilst other pay. With allowing free entries, they have not done anything to show their commitment to finishing the tournament and could just withdraw/not show up at any stage.
While this can also happen for those who have paid an entry fee, at least these players would lose their entry fee.
Also, I am strongly against this idea of free entries and no chance to win prizes as it means some players can just play risk free with no concern for their overall tournament standing, whilst those competing for prizes have to be mindful of their tournament position.
In effect it will create two different mini tournaments and some players will be adversely affected.
I would rather a smaller tournament, but where all the players are playing under the same conditions ie time control, entry fee, ability to win prizes.
David Evans (2010-04-12 11:51:37)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Hello as winner of the tour i feel apart from some internet problems the tour was a success.
It needed some more advertising to get more numbers but 30+15 was enough for me to play to a high standard.
Anyone who knows freestyle chess i play under the nick of Ultra-d a freestyle chess player who has made chessbase freestyle tour finals.
I thank u for the games and hope to see u guys in the next one.
D.evans (Ultra-d)
Thibault de Vassal (2010-04-12 14:49:55)
Freestyle Cup: April 2010
Scott, that is an interesting idea but I follow Garvin on his points.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-04-21 23:49:04)
FICGS Cup or Open tournament
Here comes back the idea of a FICGS cup or whatever the name... I'm not sure if this is a good idea as WCH tournaments take a lot of time to most of us already, best is to gather most players in the same competition IMO.
Of course I could create a rated category with no rating range at all in Special tournaments, but I'm not sure if there is really an interest in it, any opinion ?
Thibault de Vassal (2010-04-24 17:02:39)
Entry fee for higher class tournament
Tano-Urayoán just posted an interesting idea in the following discussion:
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=8507
I was totally opposed to this idea at a first sight, but after a while I found some real advantages.
The idea : Any player could pay an entry fee to enter a high class chess tournament (e.g. 20 Euros for class M, 40 for class SM, 60 for class GM), whatever his rating.
Of course what we all see first is : Anyone can pay to make increase his rating faster, that is just unfair!
But let's imagine that a player rated 1800 pays an entry fee of 40 Euros to enter the class SM waiting list.
1) The waiting list will be filled faster!
2) If this player is actually stronger than its rating show, he'll find its place faster (the other players will not lose so many points because their ratings are protected - see rating calculation rules).
3) There could be such an extra rule: Players who are already in the waiting list or who will play the tournament may share 50% of the entry fee in Epoints, which would be a kind of compensation for them.
4) These entry fees will help to have more prizes in free tournaments (another compensation) and bigger prizes in e.g. freestyle cups, although I don't have any idea on how many players would be interested in this, so the site will become more popular and so on...
Anyway, please share your views if you have any idea to improve this one, and your opinion is needed here of course!
Thibault de Vassal (2010-06-05 16:20:30)
FICGS chess database
Hello all,
As a reminder the complete FICGS chess database is available here (or see the link in Search Games in the menu) :
http://www.ficgs.com/databases/chess.pgn
Bullet, lightning & blitz games (including freestyle cup games) are no more included in this database to make it more coherent and of a better quality (too many losses on time because of connection problems or without any move played by one player)... This way bullet games are even more just for fun!
Thibault de Vassal (2010-06-11 19:36:43)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
Hi all, I guess that this FIFA world cup 2010 is worth a discussion :)
So there are now 32 teams in the race... Any predictions on who will reach the 1/8 finals, 1/4 finals, 1/2 finals and final match?
Full list of teams:
South Africa, Ghana, Côte d’Ivoire, Nigeria, Cameroon, Algeria, Australia, Japan, Korea Republic, Korea DPR, Brazil, Paraguay, Chile, Mexico, Argentina, Honduras, Uruguay, England, Netherlands, Spain, Germany, Denmark, Serbia, Italy, Switzerland, Slovakia, Greece, Slovenia, Portugal, France, United States, New Zealand
A way for me to see how many chances you give to France for this one (at least we can do better than in the Eurovision contest :))
By the way, why there are 2 Korean teams this time? I couldn't believe that "Korea DPR" is North Korea !?? Do you know something on this?
Tano-Urayoan Russi Roman (2010-06-11 20:15:23)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
France chance 1/32.
1/8 Mexico, Korea, England, Serbia, Germany, USA, Argentina, Uruguay, Holland, Italy, Brazil, Chile, Spain, Portugal, Paraguay, Denmark
1/4 Holland, Brazil, Mexico,England,Germany, Argentina, Paraguay (Denmark), Spain
Don Groves (2010-06-13 00:29:20)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
It should be a great tournament. There is no dominant team the time, several teams have decent chances...
Gregory Kohut (2010-06-14 04:09:24)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
I think Brazil will win the World Cup.
Don Groves (2010-06-14 04:17:54)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
OK, I'll go out on a limb, and pick Germany.
Francisco Gramajo (2010-06-15 01:45:34)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
Germany, France or Argentina
Surprise USA going to be in the frist four.
Regards to all...
Anderson Barradas (2010-06-15 13:56:36)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
I bet on Netherlands
Francisco Gramajo (2010-06-15 20:27:00)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
Netherlands was my team for the last 4 championships... :(
Favorite team for years PSV...
But they did not it, I go tired waiting...
William Taylor (2010-06-17 22:47:14)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
I predict Argentina will win.
Francisco Gramajo (2010-06-28 22:43:07)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
At this time... I am predicting the final will be Brasil - Germany
going to be an historic game!
Thibault de Vassal (2010-07-06 17:25:10)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
At the moment, Russi Roman's predictions were quite good :) Now let's see if "Paul" will be right again for the upcoming match Germany-Spain (I was told he chose Spain)...
Rolf Staggat (2010-07-06 18:31:22)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
@Thibault:
Both Korean teams have qualified in their groups. What is strange with it ?
Rolf Staggat (2010-07-06 18:40:57)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
@Francisco
Brazil versus Germany would not have been a "historic game": In 2002 this game was the final (2:0 for Brazil).
Rolf Staggat (2010-07-06 18:49:08)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
The largest football-stadium in the world is in.....
PJÖNGJANG, North-Korea
Francisco Gramajo (2010-07-07 00:51:03)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
for sure... in the final
Germany-Netherlands... 1974 final again!!!!
Don Groves (2010-07-07 06:41:09)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
With the same result. Germany to win the cup!
Thibault de Vassal (2010-07-07 13:48:46)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
Hi Rolf, I didn't know about Pjongjang, anyway I was really surprised to see North Korea at this level of the competition.
Rolf Staggat (2010-07-09 10:41:35)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
Thibault, North-Korea tradidional has good football-teams. In 1966 they have thrown out Italy in the world-championship. They always have one of the best Asian teams.
Rolf Staggat (2010-07-09 14:25:42)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
PAUL said: Spain wins final, Germany wins 3rd place.
Until now PAUL was always right.
PAUL lives in a octopusses garden in Oberhausen.
Francisco Gramajo (2010-07-09 20:22:16)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
@Rolf Staggat
Korean Soccer Success Secret
Look at the players, they are similar, they just use the hair diferent.
At the half time they put to play a new set of 10 players, no body notice the diference.
Hannes Rada (2010-07-09 22:46:19)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
> PAUL said: Spain wins final, Germany > wins 3rd place.
> Until now PAUL was always right.
> PAUL lives in a octopusses garden in > Oberhausen.
Ask Paul who will be the next FICGS chess champion :-)
Vadim Khachaturov (2010-07-10 07:48:17)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
Spain has been owed the Holland little bit since 1983. Maybe tomorrow will be a time to pay off.
Rolf Staggat (2010-07-12 14:23:33)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
@Francisco
Sorry, Francisco, but the North-Korean players are NOT similar, and they are well-known in Europe. One of them now plays in Bochum, Germany. Another one in Rostow, Russia. Some play in Japan and South-Korea. They all look different, maybe not for you, but for me. Ask the South-Korean player CHA, he is born in Germany, he knows them all.
Rolf Staggat (2010-07-12 14:32:55)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
@ Hannes
Let Paul PLAY the next FICGS-championship. He has nine brains, nine more than most chess-players.....
Francisco Gramajo (2010-07-12 22:33:01)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
@Rolf Staggat @Francisco
I was in korea for a while, at the begining was hard for me to diference one from other, they look similar, and believe it or not, every body is named Park, Kim, Lee or Chiung.
Seriously... the few Koreans who can get any atlhetic training becoming super athletes, that is for sure!
Another important note: most of the population dont believe in God, not in Jesus, even tough they have more respect from each other than the christians.
My highly respects for all them.
Regards to all,
Gregory Kohut (2010-07-16 15:40:18)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
Paul, the octopus who correctly predicted 8 out of 8 outcomes, is retiring.
Don Groves (2010-07-17 04:39:43)
FIFA world cup 2010, predictions
Is he retiring to become calamari?
Thibault de Vassal (2010-09-30 13:35:58)
Next freestyle tournament
A "freestyle chess tournament" is (according to me) a chess tournament played OTB or on the internet by players using any kind of help (chess engines [Rybka, Fire, Houdini, Fritz, Shredder, whatever...], databases, other players...) with a fast time control (a few hours per game at most).
The "FICGS chess freestyle cup" is a freestyle chess tournament played on the internet...
As "correspondence" implies all freestyle features but the fast time control, freestyle 'must' probably mean played at a fast time control, or the two words would mean the same.
Well, it may be worth to add the final definition in the Help section after all :)
Jimmy Huggins (2010-10-26 20:11:52)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum
The players that have said they would play or are interested are as follows
For FICGS-
Wayne Lowrance
Garvin Gray
Daniel Parmet
Sebastian Boehme
Thibault de Vassal
Gino Figlio
Kevin Plant
Scott Nichols
and one guy called "Djevans" on my forum still trying to get a name. He has said that he is a FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP winner and twice finalist in the freestyle tours on chessbase. So a pretty strong player.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-10-26 21:29:20)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum
"Djevans" is David Evans, he won the FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000002
Robert Mueller (2010-10-31 09:26:02)
Freestyle Fun
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=tournament&tournament=FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000003
Thibault de Vassal (2010-10-31 11:11:50)
Crosstable
http://www.ficgs.com/crosstable_FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000003.html
Thibault de Vassal (2010-10-31 19:00:19)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Congratulations to Eros Riccio who convincingly won this 3rd Freestyle Cup !!
As for me I'm really happy with this result... I could have lost the last game on time (connection lost just after the draw), and time pressure decided in a lost position vs. Sebi... :/
- The standings :
Place Name Score Berg.
1 Eros Riccio 4.5 - 15.25
2 Thibault de Vassal 4.5 - 14.25
3 Kamesh Nookala 3.5 - 11.5
4 Robert Mueller 3.5 - 10.75
5 Gino Figlio 3.5 - 10.5
6-7 Ruben Comes 3.5 - 8.75
6-7 Yuriy Perikov 3.5 - 8.75
8-9 David Evans 3 - 6.75
8-9 Sebastian Boehme 3 - 6.75
10-11 Richard Bitoon 2.5 - 5.5
10-11 Jai Prakash Singh 2.5 - 5.5
12 Scott Nichols 2.5 - 5.25
13 Garvin Gray 2.5 - 3.5
14 Marcel Jacon 2 - 2.5
15 Xavier Pichelin 1.5 - 3
16 Jose Moreira 1 - 2
(the score is the one shown in the software, it may be not the same in the FICGS tournament page)
Finally we avoided the connection problems (really lucky), this was a really nice event, I would like to thank all players & especially Garvin who was up very late to play!
Lots of fun, definitely... I'll try to organize the 4th edition in about 3 months!
Kamesh Nookala (2010-10-31 19:10:44)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Congratulations Eros,
you got a cake* to eat !!
Thanks to all who played vs. me and those who didn't.
You guys rock !
Finally, thanks Thib for hosting such an eventful tour :)
Ruben Comes (2010-10-31 19:11:59)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Congrat Eros!!!
And thenks for the great tourn Thib!
Sebastian Boehme (2010-10-31 20:00:30)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Also here goes my 50 cents about the tour.
First of all: Thib, very nice tour. Without you we would not have such nice events. FICGS rocks!
Secondly: Congrats to Eros, who made a last minute join and made me think: oh maybe he is out of shape, but you proved the opposite!
Last but not least....am grrrrr about my own performance a bit. I think time management I need to practise a little better next time. ;-)
Many regards,
Sebastian
Eros Riccio (2010-10-31 21:33:09)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
A big thank you to everyone who played, making this event possible, and especially to Thibault, who did the efforts needed to make this event possible, and also did a great TD Job! (and let's not forget his second place ;-)
Ciao,
Eros.
Jimmy Huggins (2010-10-31 22:52:16)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Great job to all the players! Eros you have proven to be one of the best on the forum and possible the world. Keep up with the great work :)
Jimmy
Wayne Lowrance (2010-11-01 00:48:48)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Wow, my congrats to all who played. I feel I missed a special time. My chess work load did not permit me to play, But I am hopeful to join next time. I am chessed out, putting a ton of time on my FICGS games and falling further and further behind :)
Wayne
Garvin Gray (2010-11-01 01:00:54)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
I endorse all the comments previously stated.
I would like to see two changes for next time:
1) Longer time control. Yes I realise it will take longer to play, but I felt a lot of the games were about the computer and not much about true freestyle.
2) Starting at a different time :) and starting the days on time.
Gino Figlio (2010-11-01 04:04:09)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Congrats Eros!
I enjoyed all the games and friendly atmosphere. This was a first but very nice freestyle experience for me.
Many things to learn from and hope to do better next time!
Special thanks to Thibault, how do you manage to play two roles at the same time and excel on both?
Jai Prakash Singh (2010-11-01 05:09:09)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Congrats Eros and Thib! Great performances. It was a nice experience for me too except that I was getting disconnected just before start of my games. So reconnection caused initial time loss in many games for me.
Jai Prakash Singh (2010-11-01 05:10:26)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Congrats to Kamesh too for getting 3rd position in this strong tournament.
Xavier Pichelin (2010-11-01 09:48:33)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Congrats Eros and Thibault!!
Very good games!!
Kamesh Nookala (2010-11-01 13:58:46)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
Thanks Singh,
But Winners always steal the show :)
Thibault de Vassal (2010-11-02 09:56:22)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
@Jai Prakash: do not be too deceived, we all (or almost) know the connection issues, I lost many bullet games including in freestyle tournaments because of this... the aim is always to organize more freestyle tournaments, so you'll have your full chance early or lately, just like in the WCH cycles (the chancy factor is everywhere)!
@Garvin: let's continue to discuss it, the first tournament was played in 1 hour + 15 sec/move, I feel that the quality of engines improved enough so that the brain can take fully part of the game [less time to navigate into the game, more to understand the position], by the way everyone agrees that the book is more important than to have 64 cores (that was not true a few years ago)... an increment of 20 seconds would be better though, but it is no more 2 hours per game :/ .. in my opinion, if we have players enough like this time, a 7th round (or even a 8th) would bring more benefit than more time to find the best player, and I must say I was quite frustrated not to play a few players during the tour. :) Finally... with 6 rounds only, the best player won, most probably. All opinions are welcome here.
Garvin Gray (2010-11-02 10:20:43)
Eros Riccio wins the 3rd Freestyle Cup !
With the 30 mins plus 15 secs time control, more rounds on two days becomes problematical.
With a 1300 ficgs starting time, those from the Americas were starting at about 5am and I was starting at 10pm on the second day.
So adding an extra round would mean either play starts early, or goes later.
The only other solution would be to add an extra day and play 9 rounds.
In part, the time zone issue is another reason why I think a longer time control might be better.
Xavier Pichelin (2010-11-06 11:41:08)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
Who would like play the Freestyle Poker in the Futur?
Jimmy Huggins (2010-11-06 14:42:22)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
I would like to play in a poker tournament like that
Thibault de Vassal (2010-11-06 15:08:49)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
Hi all, yes I was to post something on that topic... I'm not sure if we have poker players enough, but it would be interesting to already know who would play such a "live" poker tournament with about the same format than the chess Freestyle -> 6 games (swiss system) played in 10 mins + 10 seconds per move, one game every 2 hours or so.
Of course the number of moves may vary from ~10 to ~1000, some games may be quite long but it's worth a try anyway :)
Simone Calvello (2010-11-06 21:39:44)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
If I manage to get enough E-points, I would be really glad to partecipate in such events!
Don Groves (2010-11-07 01:48:13)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
I'm in.
Xavier Pichelin (2010-11-07 09:48:23)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
Yes Thibault,
The game is long, or it is not possible for per game 5minutes + 5 secondes per moves? or 10 minutes + 10 secondes per 20 moves?
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2010-11-07 16:33:07)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
I would like to play this tournament if I have time.
Maybe we can use 10 min and 20 sec per hand as a time control. Thibault, is that technically possible? I think "hand" is a better unit than "move".
Thibault de Vassal (2010-11-07 17:00:31)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
5 minutes + 5 seconds per move may be ok... I think I'll test it soon. I prefer moves as a hand may be very short or quite long.
Rolf Staggat (2010-11-10 18:58:34)
FREESTYLE CUP POKER
I would like to play, if the date is not in the football-season.....
Thibault de Vassal (2011-01-12 21:01:31)
Eros Riccio is the new FICGS chess champ
Congratulations to SM Eros Riccio who made it in the 4th FICGS correspondence chess championship, beating FICGS WCH Edward Kotlyanskiy 6.5-5.5
As he already won the candidates final match in the 5th FICGS chess WCH, we'll have the next final match "Eros Riccio vs. Eros Riccio" :) .. just joking, means that Eros just won the 5th FICGS championship as well... 2 titles at once, an amazing performance!
Sure that we'll need veeeery strong players to try to move the new FICGS king (who also won 2 FICGS freestyle cups) in the next WCH cycles! :)
Congrats also to Edward who was really near in this match, maybe the players will explain what happened in the only game that didn't finish into a draw... Finally many thanks to both players for a nice show!
Kamesh Nookala (2011-02-17 19:13:14)
Friends, let's revolutionaize FICGS!!!!
Hi Guys,
FICGS is a great place. Atleast for me. I am very much attracted to the style of play. For more competitive play and attracting more correspondence chess players, while maintaining the purpose of correspondence chess, I think we all can help contribute in making FICGS the greatest server of all times to come.
I know what matters is real stuff, like the ICCF, but why not strengthen the identity of FICGS itself. We can have some games with various other servers (for e.g. the Rybkaforum match we had)
This way, in a calendar year we can have our tours fixed with each server, be it German or anything else.
As far as Thib is concerned, he is too much preoccupied maintaining the server. So, I request each and every member of this Server to throw some of their valuable inputs.
Warm Regards,
Kam
Thibault de Vassal (2011-03-01 11:17:27)
FICGS chess World Championship #9
The idea of this championship was to have a tournament looking like the old classical FIDE WCH, so it would be a non-sense to me to make such changes (the chess world will always be divided into 2 categories on this point :)), I'm not opposed to create something like a Cup tournament (the Freestyle tournament is one example) but it would be probably too much already for the addicted players that we are, so the WBCCC is a good alternative.
Glad to see that Daniel agrees on the 2000 prov. rating, does anyone have any opinion on the suggestions I made just after "@Garvin:" in my previous post?
Thibault de Vassal (2011-08-02 20:15:54)
Gaetano Laghetti wins IECG Cup 2006
Italia strikes again, congratulations Gaetano for winning this IECG Cup started 5 years ago! It is funny to see how correspondence chess has evolved during this only tournament...
The crosstable:
http://lss.chess-server.net/tournaments/crosstable/tourid/19644
Thibault de Vassal (2011-08-10 11:00:24)
Ideas for a Freestyle tournament
Round 1 in the latest freestyle cup started at 1pm server time. Looked not so bad...
With 60 mins plus 30 secs, a few players will spend the whole night or almost but I agree this is best for freestyle.
Alvin Alcala (2011-08-10 11:30:23)
Ideas for a Freestyle tournament
In free style cup section why not make an option of a freestyle tour so anyone online can immediately arrange a tour with entry fee of say 10 e-points or even bronze. Then the format would be minimum 2 players or even number of players. Money prizes will be broken down accordingly. I loved to play advance chess a lot but it will be more exciting if you will play more people.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-08-13 23:38:58)
Ideas for a Freestyle tournament
Oh ok if I had to swing in right now. It would be a Sat-->Sat event. 5 or 6 rounds depending on how many want to play. The time control at the moment would be 60+30sec. It seemed to work for FICGS freestyle cup. I guess the question is how many hours are we willing to go for a day.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-08-13 23:41:04)
Ideas for a Freestyle tournament
I guess the only real difference at the moment form my tournament to the FICGS freestyle cup is doing it on 2 Saturdays instead of Saturday and Sunday. I feel like this is a slight benefit that most seem to agree with.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-09-07 00:44:59)
Freestyle Cup 1 update
Here is a couple of threads over at the Rybka forum one is about time control, one is an overall thread and the last is the start time.
Time Control- http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=22927
Start Time- http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=22926
Overall- http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=22925
Please give input and vote. Please and thank you.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-09-07 00:45:32)
Freestyle Cup 1 update
Please give input and vote please and thank you.
Jimmy
Jimmy Huggins (2011-10-05 19:44:45)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
I'm ready to announce, that the first tournament for the freestyle cup will begin 10 days form today on Oct 15th. The first tournament will be 20m+30s. Since right now we have a large number of American players we will probably start in the early morning in the Americans. I figure this to be the best. So 5-7am Central standard time Or 6-8am Eastern Standard time. I would like to get in at least 3 rounds in on Saturday and see how everyone is. We may do one, but 3 is a safe bet. Then we will finish the tournament next Saturday at the same time. There will be some time between for a break probably 20 to 30 minutes. In the next post I will explain what you need to do to get the the free server and what to do once you get it. A lot of you have a user name and password already (WBCCC) but if you don't I will help you with that. One thing I will say is important is to make sure you leave open a chat window with me. In case you run into any problems. I can answer most problems, if not there will be someone there to help assist me. If I need it.
Alvin Alcala (2011-10-05 19:46:13)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
Fast answer
Jimmy Huggins (2011-10-05 19:49:06)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
If you need to know what time that will be let me know. To many one outside the US.
Alvin Alcala (2011-10-05 19:51:04)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
No what I mean you can post the FICGS server timing. All can determine whats the equivalent in their time zones. It can be seen in the "messegaes" (i.e. Paris, 2011 October 5, server time 19:50:30)
Jimmy Huggins (2011-10-06 07:34:10)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
It will be between 12:00-14:00 FICGS time here.
Thibault de Vassal (2011-10-28 01:20:25)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
...btw what happened in this tournament?? any news?
Scott Nichols (2011-10-28 18:15:03)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
It never happened Thib, various reasons. btw, when is YOUR next one, :)
Thibault de Vassal (2011-10-28 21:41:42)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
I said to Jimmy it should happen in november... end of november. I'm to open a discussion about it.
Thibault de Vassal (2011-10-28 22:16:09)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Hi all,
The 4th FICGS freestyle tournament may happen on december 3 & 4 (2011) - three rounds each day at 13:00, 15:00, 17:00 server time. The format should be the same (30 minutes + 15 seconds per move) than the previous one.
That's quite a good moment IMO, just before the start of the next championship cycle.
What do you think? Any suggestions?
Thank you,
Thibault
Jimmy Huggins (2011-10-29 07:10:16)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
If you get this in, than I'm sacing my last tournament and probably just do the 60min tournament.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-10-29 07:11:38)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Its to hard to try and do a 90min tournament and do more than 1 game a weekend. People just didn't want to do it.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-10-29 07:12:46)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Well let me retract part of that. They DO want to play in a 90min type tournament. But getting to do more than 1 game a weekend was like trying to pull teeth.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-10-29 07:14:58)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
Thib I'm not one to cut into others opportunities. I'm good for just running the 60min tournament over 2 weekends. probably the 5th and 12th.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-10-29 07:15:16)
Official WBCCC freestyle cup 1 to begin
Of Nov
Garvin Gray (2011-10-29 15:41:40)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Hmm I seem to be repeating myself :) Jimmy, one round per week, 90 minutes plus 30 secs.
Run it over seven or so weeks, a player can take a no explanation half point bye if they wish and then that will fill the time between WBCCC's.
Scott Nichols (2011-10-29 17:53:04)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
The more the merrier, :) I'm down for all of them....
Thibault de Vassal (2011-10-29 21:23:06)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
We shouldn't talk about several tournaments at the same time... quite confusing. So this is a thread about the next FICGS freestyle tournament only. Who would be interested to play this week end (december 3, 4) ? (starting with me, of course :))
Thanks :)
Wayne Lowrance (2011-10-30 05:35:52)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
I would play
Robert Mueller (2011-10-30 07:48:45)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
I would play, probably.
Scott Nichols (2011-10-30 13:43:32)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Yes, put me down.
Garvin Gray (2011-11-01 11:51:15)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Scott, you certainly put the thread down with your last comment :P
David Evans (2011-11-01 14:54:04)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Start a waiting list thib.........
Sebastian Boehme (2011-11-01 15:22:36)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Sounds interesting to me, speaking as of now: I will probably be able to play.
Garvin Gray (2011-11-01 16:40:27)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Agree with needing a waiting list
Gino Figlio (2011-11-01 16:50:44)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
I would like to play as well
Thibault de Vassal (2011-11-01 20:58:17)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Okay, the waiting list is open! :)
Robert Mueller (2011-11-02 17:47:12)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Why is it called FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000002 if it is the 4th freestyle cup?
Garvin Gray (2011-11-03 01:05:12)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Was there a ficgs freestyle cup 03?
Thibault de Vassal (2011-11-03 09:48:27)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Yes Garvin, see the tournaments list. Thanks Robert, it's fixed now :)
Tano-Urayoan Russi Roman (2011-11-04 01:16:27)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Fast answer
Garvin Gray (2011-11-13 16:44:59)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Entries could be closed now. It would be a nice 8 player round robin :)
Thibault de Vassal (2011-11-22 10:52:44)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
ICCF SIM Igor Dolgov just entered the waiting list... Things could be even harder than last time if the italian team joins us :)
Thibault de Vassal (2011-12-01 19:20:12)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Hi all, as a reminder the tournament starts this saturday, december 3 at 1pm. / 13:00 server time !!
Good luck :)
Garvin Gray (2011-12-03 18:56:57)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Thibault,
Can you please post provisional round four pairings when all the games are done from round three.
Thibault de Vassal (2011-12-03 19:26:21)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Sorry, I can't... it may bring some confusion and favour a few players. Everyone (including me) will know tomorrow when games start...
Jai Prakash Singh (2011-12-04 05:32:15)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
I got bye in rd 1 and draw in rd 3. But my points being shown are 0.5 instead of 1.5. Please correct it.
Garvin Gray (2011-12-04 11:31:34)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
I am almost certain who my opponent will be and what colour ;)
Thibault de Vassal (2011-12-04 12:39:41)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Jai, the FICGS crosstable is not exactly the same as in the program that organizes it. I'll publish the full results at the end of the tourney.
@Garvin, there are good chances indeed :)
Garvin Gray (2011-12-04 14:25:51)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
I am thinking that for future freestyle cups, that the entry fee should be 20 euro and half of that is refunded if a player completes all their scheduled games.
A person who forfeits a game, or withdraws, does their whole dough and gets nothing.
Thibault de Vassal (2011-12-04 16:35:34)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Idea to be discussed Garvin! Interesting...
Thibault de Vassal (2011-12-04 19:54:16)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Garvin, about your suggestion: what about forfeits due to connection problems?
Alvin Alcala (2011-12-05 16:05:38)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Many thanks, It was a lucky two days for me as the top guns are not around (Eros, David, & Ruben). Also much much stronger opposition if Alberto, Sebi, Kamesh, etc are included. In the next tour I hope more people will join as we barely have this type of a tourney in a year. :)
Thibault de Vassal (2011-12-05 16:31:24)
Who wants a Freestyle GO tournament soon?
Hi all, this discussion to see if we would have players enough to organize a first Freestyle GO tournament...
You can see the rules in "Waiting lists" > "Go freestyle cup"
Any players interested to play such a tournament for example in january? (I'm one of them of course :))
Garvin Gray (2011-12-06 12:05:27)
4th FICGS freestyle cup
Garvin, about your suggestion: what about forfeits due to connection problems?
Well for situations outside their control, no penalty. But the issue is how to rule on that and what stops a person from dis-connecting and then saying not my fault, isp issues or the like.
Garvin Gray (2011-12-29 16:11:44)
Different tournament format
Thibault has touched on an issue that I have thought about for a while, so time for a new thread.
Regularly it is discussed about the issues regarding the rating bands, getting to play different players and all sundry similiar issues.
In my opinion I think what this site really needs is more events run under the correspondence style format (not freestyle cup style), where players of significantly different ratings are playing against each other.
Here is what I envisage:
Qualification Stage:
All players of all ratings enter. Groups are divided up similar to Ficgs, except that no players are segregated, so the highest rated player is in Group A, second highest rated player in Group B and so forth.
Even numbers in each group, with a maximum of nine players in a group. There are no substitutes after a group begins.
There are no special groups for the highest rated players or knockout matches. (this is most important to distinguish this event from the WCH)
Final Stage(s):
The winners of each qualification group advance to the final stages, everyone else is eliminated. If there is a tie for first, then all tied players advance. If only one group is required, then this is the final.
If two groups are required, then it would be semi finals and normal round robin pairings would be used and the cycle repeats to get a final group of .... players.
To encourage the highest rated players to enter and to give everyone else a chance to win something substantial, e point entry fee would be 10 epoints.
Thibault de Vassal (2012-01-16 11:40:38)
Time control for lightning games
Hi all,
I've been told that 1h + 15 sec./move (freestyle cup time control) would be better for lightning games than 20 min + 30 sec./move
As I don't want to create another advanced chess category (no good name, not useful), I'd like to know how many people among players who tried it think that such a change would be a good thing.
As for me, I'm not so favourable to such a change, my point is: 1h + 15 sec. means that you'll have to wait for your opponent 1 hour before he plays his next move! That is quite long, particularly to win no point, and you could even lose the game if your opponent comes back just before the end... That's why I prefer 20 min + 30 sec. per move, that is in average as long as the freestyle time control.
Any opinion?
Thibault de Vassal (2012-01-16 15:19:52)
Time control for lightning games
Right, 1h + 15 sec. was the 1st Freestyle Cup's time control. And yes this is about the lightning time control only.
Maybe 30 minutes + 15 sec. would be a good choice also so we have 3 choices :
1) 20 min + 30 sec./move
2) 30 min + 15 sec./move
3) 60 min + 15 sec./move
Which one would you prefer (and why?)
Thibault de Vassal (2012-04-21 18:05:09)
Slow tournament entries
The FICGS WCH is held every 8 months, so about twice a year. I'm still not opposed at all to organize a "CUP" event but it would take many rounds as well and I'm afraid it kills regular tournaments, so we probably need more players for this.
@Daniel: your current rating is 2080, I cannot believe that it is not possible for you to win points in CLASS A... If you win one (or reach 2150) you could enter a CLASS M with 10 Epoints, seems far from impossible.
Garvin Gray (2012-04-21 19:04:37)
Slow tournament entries
Thib: The FICGS WCH is held every 8 months, so about twice a year. I'm still not opposed at all to organize a "CUP" event but it would take many rounds as well and I'm afraid it kills regular tournaments, so we probably need more players for this.
Garvin: I understand what you are saying, but currently numbers for each of the divisions are small and taking a long time to fill, if at all.
The 'cup' could even attract a few new players, or at least drag a few inactive players out of the woodwork.
I understand your point about the number of rounds. I think this could be alleviated by having nine or eleven players per group.
One of the biggest issue, which feels like it is starting to plague the ficgs wch, is a draw rate of about 95 percent.
Thibault de Vassal (2012-04-21 19:35:42)
Slow tournament entries
I agree about the draw rate... unfortunately there's no solution there :-/
On the cup format, you may be right after all. I'll have to think about it again, if a CUP cycle starts 4 months after each WCH (between 2 WCH cycles), with 2 rounds of 11 or 13 players tournaments (rapid time control, only 1 qualified for next round), this would be ok for 121 to 169 players, but it is a lot of rapid games (as for me I couldn't play it) and we may have less players for the next WCH... Anyway, thinking about it, it will be worth to open another discussion.
Garvin Gray (2012-04-24 15:01:32)
Ficgs World Cup
Following discussions about slow tournament entries, bracket and band rating issues and many other topics, a common item that came out of those discussions is that trying a modified version of the ficgs world championship is worth a trial.
So Ficgs World Cup sounds like a good name.
Format:
In the Ficgs world championship, there are many different qualifying stages, depending on your finishing position from the last cycle, your rating at the time of entry and the strength and total number of the other entrants.
While this format is very good for the concept envisaged when it was created, I think a ficgs world cup, with a format that will be explained below is required to cover a few gaps that are in the ficgs world championship.
The ficgs world cup will work as follows.
1) Everyone enters before a certain date, say June 1st 2012.
2) As soon as entries close, that is it. Entries are not taken after this date and there are NO replacements. The groups are meant to be of equal strength. Adding a new player can distort this.
3) Entrants are then divided into groups of roughly equal strength. Highest rated person is seed 1 in Group A, 2nd highest rated person is seed 1 in Group B. Serpentine pairings are used to allocate all players to each group.
4) How many players and how many groups is determined after the entries have closed. I would think that there will be probably 11 groups of 11 players (121 entries in total). It might be likely that we have to have three stages, depending on total number of entries.
5) 1 person from each group qualifies for the final stage. This is determined by total score, total wins and then TER. This does differ from the tie break formula of the FicgsWCH.
Pros:
1) Everyone gets a game against players of different ratings, no segregated groups or players
2) Everyone starts from stage one
3) The format is clear to understand
Cons:
1) May not be as tempting to the highest rated players (fear of loss of rating points)
2) Might take longer to finish
In my opinion, this is a format that deserves a couple of trial events to see if it is successful
Thibault de Vassal (2012-04-24 16:37:02)
Ficgs World Cup
Well done Garvin. I agree with all points (for once :))... maybe it can be done in 2 rounds though (would be better so that the most successful players avoid to have 2 or 3 cups running at the same time in a few years)
Garvin Gray (2012-04-24 17:13:09)
Ficgs World Cup
Whether two or three stages depends on how many entrants. I think there can be only a maximum of 11 players per group and also only a maximum of 11 players in the final stage.
Scott Nichols (2012-04-24 18:52:36)
Ficgs World Cup
Sounds intriguing. I assume it would be Rapid time control like the Wch. Just one little idea, would an entry fee of 2 E-points be good? Everybody that signs up here gets 2 free E-points, it would be a good way to use them and also it would cut down on the people that start and don't finish.
Thibault de Vassal (2012-04-24 19:30:14)
Ficgs World Cup
Ah, I assumed that the rapid time control was the only solution but actually we can envisage something else... maybe to have tournaments of 13 players if it is successful.
Or maybe we can have a limited number of places!? (so that the most motivated enter it first, and it would solve the total number issue)
I'm not so favourable to the Epoints fee here, but that's probably worth to be thinked twice.
George Clement (2012-04-24 20:37:58)
Ficgs World Cup
I'm with Scott sounds intriguing. Also raped time control would be fine.
George Clement (2012-04-24 21:17:34)
Ficgs World Cup
:) Didn't mean raped time control in previous post but rapid. Sorry for the typo. ;)
Peter W. Anderson (2012-04-24 22:58:29)
Ficgs World Cup
Sounds like a good idea to me. Big groups are a good idea - it gives more chance of getting a clear group winner without tie breaks.
Thibault de Vassal (2012-04-25 00:26:09)
Ficgs World Cup
Who thinks that a limited number of places (81 = 9x9 or 121 = 11x11 or 169 = 13x13 according to how the waiting list fills) would be a good idea?
And what about a rating band to avoid forfeits by casual players? Maybe ratings above 2000... In some ways it could be a real alternative to the WCH for all players rated from 2000 to 2200, and there would be less games to play at the same time (less frightening to entry)... just a thought.
Garvin Gray (2012-04-25 01:52:44)
Ficgs World Cup
Seen a few ideas, some that I thought would not be popular are been suggested as to give it a go. Good:)
There is a simple solution to keeping it to 2 stages. Just announce there will be 11 groups and leave the number of players in each group till when you know the final numbers.
So 220 players would be 11 groups of 20 players. That might be too much for some people, but you get the general idea.
Perhaps with 20 player groups (hypothetical of course), a slightly longer time control would be a good idea, perhaps 30 days initial plus 3 day increment ;)
Thib: I was thinking about the issue of the number of groups and I think it has to be eleven groups in the first stage. Then each of the 1st place group winners go through to final stage.
I am against any concept of rating bands, or even the mention of the concept. That is totally against the principle, design and point of this format.
Steve Lim (2012-04-25 03:55:03)
Ficgs World Cup
Hmmm.. food for thought.. to summarize.
2 Stages of 20 games
or..
3 Stages of 11-13 games
Pros/Cons?
I too am against the concept of rating bands however we need a way to deal with casual players and dropouts. Especially if there is a no replacement policy..
Garvin Gray (2012-04-25 04:43:19)
Ficgs World Cup
I think everyone needs to be completely clear when they mention the term rating bands:
In the context used on ficgs, it means a minimum and maximum rating that players can play in. For example in the rapid waiting lists, there is a rating band of 1900-2100. Meaning only players between 1900 and 2100 can play in that group.
If you are talking about players being suspended, then please specify that and be clear that you are talking about suspensions.
I apologise if this reads as a cranky reply, but this whole concept is being devised to not have any kind of rating bands, or special exemptions for any player.
So I bristle quickly and strongly as the suggestion of rating bands or special exemptions, to the point that I will abandon this concept if rating bands or exemptions are going to be implemented.
George Clement (2012-04-25 17:28:04)
Ficgs World Cup
I also agree with Garvin and Thib. 11 groups, rapid time control, and no rating bands. However I think we need an activity requirement, nine or 10 rated games wouldn't be too bad of one!
Garvin Gray (2012-04-25 18:04:47)
Ficgs World Cup
To simplify the activity requirement, it can be that all players must have an established rating. No provisionals and no estimated ratings.
An issue regarding number of groups is, what if we 50 or so entries. 11 groups of 5 seems rather silly, so I think it would have to be 5 groups of 11, with 2 players qualifying for the final stage.
While having 2 players qualify is not ideal, it is better than having 11 groups of 5 players, which defeats one of the purposes of giving more games across different rating groups.
George Clement (2012-04-25 18:41:11)
Ficgs World Cup
To simplify the activity requirement, it can be that all players must have an established rating. No provisionals and no estimated ratings.
That would be really good! As far as the groups I think it would really depend on the number of entries. It will be tough to predict ahead of time.
Daniel Parmet (2012-04-26 01:13:45)
Ficgs World Cup
Great idea Garvin.
As far as activity goes, I think it should be either an established rating with a history of no time forfeits. It definitely should not be calculated based on RATED games. This is silly. I play many unrated games these days because its the only way to play strong players. I don't play rated here anymore because of the rating bands. So your activity requirement would exclude the very type of player you are trying to grab.
Peter W. Anderson (2012-04-25 08:59:48)
Ficgs World Cup
Either 2 stages of 20 or 3 stages of 11-13 would work for me. 20 is my personal limit for the number of games I play at once, but for this format I would make an exception and take on the group of 20 even if I had a few games running.
Like Garvin I am against banding on this, as it is against the original objective. I guess you could put a lower limit in, but I think it should be much lower than 2000. Maybe 1800 or even 1700.
One way of dealing with casual players and minimising the likelihood of drop outs is to only open the tournament up to someone who has already completed (a much better test than started) a certain number of games on FICGS. Perhaps 30 games which equates to 5 normal tournaments, (or even higher, at the risk of me not being eligible!).
Garvin Gray (2012-04-25 09:16:51)
Ficgs World Cup
Ahh now I think I understand some of the previous comments.
What you guys are talking about is a rating floor, not a rating band. With a rating floor of say 1999. So all players must be rated above 1999 to participate.
Not a big fan of a rating floor for this as it goes against the original objective, which is to provide more opportunities for players of different ratings to compete against each other. This does not only apply to 2000's v 2200's, but also applies further down the rating list as well.
The effect is not as pronounced, but still applies for the original objective.
I am in favour of an activity requirement. The standard in otb chess is that a player must have played nine rated games to get a rating, so the minimum activity could be ten completed games.
I am not as strong on the idea of an activity requirement as I am on no rating bands (which is very different to rating floor).
Thibault de Vassal (2012-04-25 10:58:56)
Ficgs World Cup
Okay, so far I agree with Garvin on all main points I think.
- No rating floor (or rating band, of course)
- 11 groups whatever the number of players
- I think that the rapid time control is still ok as many games should be finished quite fast
Thibault de Vassal (2012-04-26 09:35:30)
Ficgs World Cup
After a while I went back and prefered no activity requirement at all (not a big deal if 3 or 4 players give up their games in a group, I'll do replacements as in the WCH). And to be more accurate, the number of groups would be at most 11.
Garvin Gray (2012-04-27 04:16:52)
Ficgs World Cup
Please, no replacements. If people can not organise themselves to add themselves to the entry list before the close of entries, they do not deserve to enter.
I think it is fairer to have one or two players not participate in a group than it is to add players after the event has started.
Please do not use replacements. This concept is meant to be the opposite in almost every way to WCH, and the main idea is to keep it as simple as possible.
Having replacements add a complication that is not required. It will also distort the balance on ratings of each group where forfeited players occur.
How do you ensure that each group where a forfeited player occurs and get a replacement? Otherwise you have filled some groups and not others.
See the hornets nest that is created by using replacements. Please do not use replacements, just let the normal standard tournament factors decide the final placings and people in the final stage.
George Clement (2012-04-27 20:42:54)
Ficgs World Cup
Again I agree. No replacements! Let matters fall as they may when someone forfiets.
Thibault de Vassal (2012-04-27 20:45:16)
Ficgs World Cup
Okay, anyway I like the idea to do very different of the FICGS WCH!
Garvin Gray (2012-04-28 03:13:36)
Ficgs World Cup
Ok, new name- The anti-ficgs wch ;) :P
Thibault de Vassal (2012-05-01 01:36:08)
Slow tournament entries
Well, sure swiss system is great (FICGS freestyle cup is a swiss tournament too) but IMHO it is quite bad for the correspondence chess format (because of the number of rounds and the human factor)... Of course it would have some advantages but I think that inconvenients are more important, added to the fact such tournaments couldn't be 100% automatized.
Garvin Gray (2012-05-01 02:34:43)
Slow tournament entries
I would rather just get ficgs world cup started than worry about swiss system tournaments.
Scott Nichols (2012-05-02 14:26:47)
Slow tournament entries
What I was hoping was that the World Cup could be a swiss system.
Thibault de Vassal (2012-05-13 14:18:28)
Ficgs World Cup
... still thinking about it.
Sometimes it seems to me that such a championship would look like too much to FICGS WCH round-robin groups & could make regular tournaments entries slower (also not all interested players could play both WCH & CUP). Sometimes I'm more optimistic & see it mainly as an event more.
Any opinion after these few weeks?
Garvin Gray (2012-05-13 15:27:19)
Ficgs World Cup
One opinion- Get on with it.
Neel Basant (2012-05-16 17:51:40)
Ficgs World Cup
what will be the restrictions and conditions ?
Garvin Gray (2012-05-18 02:43:21)
Ficgs World Cup
I suggest you read all the posts Neel. The answers are all there.
Dmitri Mamrukov (2012-08-19 03:29:18)
This is Russia :(
Both Kasparov and Ruzin are provocateurs. No sensible Russian citizen would write this title. It's like an American posting "This is America :(" just based on
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/14-specific-allegations-of-nypd-brutality-during-occupy-wall-street/260295/
http://www.chrgj.org/projects/suppressingprotest.pdf
Garvin Gray (2012-10-09 16:33:54)
Ficgs World Cup
And on a related issue, there is still this event to get off the ground.
Daniel Parmet (2012-10-15 05:45:36)
WCH Final match
I don't want to enter the Wch due to rating bias in the groups. So until that is fixed I am only interested in FICGS World Cup.
Garvin Gray (2012-10-15 10:43:37)
Ficgs World Cup
Bump :)
Thibault de Vassal (2012-10-15 12:50:09)
Ficgs World Cup
Hi Garvin, I still have doubts on launching what would look like another championship based on ICCF WCH format when we don't have players enough... I'm afraid we have other priorities before that :/
Garvin Gray (2013-03-02 10:47:03)
What size groups do you prefer?
Larger groups will always take longer to fill. I would prefer larger groups, but I prefer groups to start regularly, rather than waiting three or so months for a group to start.
I think we do have a serious issue with groups not being able to start because of insufficient numbers.
I proposed the ficgs world cup to complement the ficgs world champs. Rather than attempting to tinker with the group bandings we have at the moment, perhaps it is time to consider that players are more likely to join another 'event' rather than just another group that was just like the previous one they played in.
Garvin Gray (2013-03-10 14:26:50)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
When will freestyle 5 be held?
I think it is time for Alvin Alcala to put his title on the line.
Thibault de Vassal (2013-03-10 16:28:12)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Yes, I was seriously thinking about it for a few weeks... It should be feasible on march 30-31 or april 6-7
Any opinion?
Alvin Alcala (2013-03-10 17:11:47)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Nice to know it will be finally held. I the like the schedule of April 6-7 to have enough time for advertising the tour and have more participants.
Garvin Gray (2013-03-12 16:16:50)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
March 30-31 is Easter. Personally no issue for me and I would prefer three days straight, but Easter could be an issue for others.
Thibault de Vassal (2013-03-13 12:53:13)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Okay, April 6-7 looks better all ways. Let's do this...
Garvin Gray (2013-03-14 13:48:30)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
I would like to request one change. That the event either be 5 or 7 rounds, not six.
Six rounds throws up the possibility of someone receiving 4 whites 2 blacks and other players 2 whites 4 blacks.
That is rather unfair on those who get 2/4. With 5 or 7 rounds the worst that can happen is either +1 or -1 for colour balance.
Garvin Gray (2013-03-30 09:40:20)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Need to get your names in to enter. Otherwise it is likely to be cancelled.
Currently 5 entries so far.
Alvin Alcala (defending champion), David Evans, Wayne Lowrance, Thibault De Vassal and myself.
Garvin Gray (2013-03-30 09:44:52)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Also, everyone who enters should be careful.
Daylight saving time starts tomorrow morning, so the time difference between you and local server time will be different between now and the start of the freestyle cup.
Alvin Alcala (2013-03-30 17:04:32)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Playing in the FICGS Freestyle Cup is a worthwhile experience. I encourage you to participate in the tour.
Garvin Gray (2013-04-06 05:58:17)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
For everyone, so they can work out what time 1pm server time is for them:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130406T13&p1=195
Thibault de Vassal (2013-04-06 21:49:28)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
After round 3, Alvin is leader with 2.5 out of 3! Many good games already (not from me :o))...
See you tomorrow!
Thibault de Vassal (2013-04-07 22:48:43)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
The tournament is over... Alvin convincingly won it, once again.
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=tournament&tournament=FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Several things to say... first of all, I'd like to apologize again for this catastrophic first round, I just made a bunch of mistakes after a bad click :/
Second of all, I would like to thank all players, sincerely, for your patience & good vibes in this tournament! It is always nice to play & organize in this mood :) Special "big up" to Wayne & Garvin for their efforts to play very early or very late...
Finally, I'd like to thank Garvin for his constant involvement in FICGS tournaments... His help is always appreciated!
See you for the next edition (before next year, I hope)...
Alvin Alcala (2013-04-08 00:28:18)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Thanks for hosting this tour Thib. We all learn from this experience.
Peter W. Anderson (2013-04-10 09:06:37)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Congrats to Alvin. I dropped in a few times to watch a few minutes of the games and you always seemed to have stuff under control :) Impressive against tough opposition.
Alvin Alcala (2013-04-10 17:13:00)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Thanks for the compliment. I always put pressure and seems works well :). You should join next time, it's quite fun!
Garvin Gray (2013-04-12 19:42:11)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
What I would like to see is that these are regularly held, perhaps one each quarter.
That way there is better promotion, more play and less issues, both in the running of the event and players knowledge of how this event works.
On the structure of the event, I would like to see a 20 second increment, instead of 15.
I found the 15 second increment quite often was just enough time to:
See position
Input into engine
See evals
Input move into game position
Make move on here.
An extra 5 seconds would make a lot of difference.
Alvin Alcala (2013-04-15 19:26:26)
FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000005
Last tour was missed out so hosting this tour in yearly basis is already tough job for Thib.
Thibault de Vassal (2013-06-05 00:06:55)
Wch cycles possible changes?
Hi Garvin!
Some changes have been made for the chess WCH, about 1 year and a half ago, complicating the rules but not so bad IMO.
I'm not against changes but I'm definitely for coherence... as you know, I think that there is no point changing FICGS WCH going to another round-robin one, just an example. It would kill the original scheme & previous championships value just like FIDE killed its own scheme. I gave my opinion on this when launching the very first championship. Also, I'm quite convinced that constant changes always become bad and hide another problem.
I'm still favourable to create the FICGS CUP with another scheme though! But conditions are not fulfilled... we have no new players enough, numbers are very bad these times. FICGS major problem is here... solving it and most changes proposals become useless.
Anyway, do not think that I will have the last word here for ever, that won't be the case... I only hope that the best decisions will be made for the site.
Eduardo Alex Baeza Ibanez (2013-10-23 17:57:33)
Saludos desde Chile
Saludos a los fanaticos del ajedrez, soy uno de ellos y prueba de ello es que me he inscrito en cuanto servidor gratuito hay. Este servidor es nuevo para estoy a en una lista de espera imagino que en algun momento se completaran los cupos y comenzara los partidos, alguien que me aclare?.
Greetings to the chess fans, I am one of them and the proof is that I have enrolled as free server there. This server is new to'm on a waiting list at some point I imagine that quotas were completed and the parties began, someone enlighten me?
Thibault de Vassal (2014-02-28 16:36:56)
Standard time control abusers
This statistic/percentage will increase with time, most probably (quite logical)... It is probably quite the same at ICCF.
Wch is always a problem with standard tournaments, that's one reason why I was not favourable (so far) to add another cycle (cup). But I think there will be more players registering soon, things are evolving in the right way with Google.
Thibault de Vassal (2014-03-03 23:41:34)
Standard time control abusers
At least you join Garvin on the WCH groups point (and consequently the Cup idea)...
Anyway, as there are very few new strong chess players yet, this is a quite good time to try this change. Let's see in a few weeks/months if it has first effects.
Jing Huang (2014-03-04 00:14:15)
Standard time control abusers
I agree with this - "I don't play normal chess on this side because the class tournaments are not attractive enough. At least I should climb the next class level if I win a tournament. With this ELO-driven classification that is not the case."
I also like the cup idea :)
Thibault de Vassal (2014-11-02 14:19:06)
July 1 2014 Fide laws of chess
About repetition and number of moves without a pawn move or capture, FICGS rules already specify that it does not apply here so there is no change to make.
The rest of your message explains the context I was talking about. But we don't have to agree on anything: As I explained when FICGS started and many times after that, I wanted to make it (particularly the championship cycle) different from what already exists (and closer to previous FIDE cycle). Obviously, you prefer the other way, that's not a big deal, and there is ICCF or LSS. I would have been ok to make a cup cycle if we had players enough but that's definitely not the case. What to add? There are many reasons why FICGS has quite few members (real names to start...) but there are well known advantages to this. Otherwise there are chess.com, gameknot, so many sites full of players. Finally, complaining players are probably the most important ones here because they constantly bring ideas. There was many many improvements in the first years and it did not go against the coherence of the site. Your cup cycle idea does not even go against the coherence of the original idea of the site, only the context is wrong here. Changing the WCH cycle for a ICCF-like one would be the worst thing to do in this point of view. But that's only a point of view.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-10-08 18:11:38)
Wch Match Tie Break Rules
Your idea is attractive Garvin! But, it is a question of time also, and organisation of championships cycles... I don't see a satisfying solution with this one.
Scott's idea looks like the original FICGS cup's idea... and ICCF WCH. Just one more correspondence chess RR championship.
Alvin's idea is exactly what a correspondence chess champ. should avoid (IMHO), I mean server or internet provider problems... It would be a shame that it decides a winner (like it may have happened in freestyle tournaments). Also, this is just not correspondence chess anymore.
Garvin Gray (2015-10-09 16:57:51)
Wch Match Tie Break Rules
Thib: I have not replied to this topic since my last comment for two reasons. 1) Nothing new to add 2) I had seen Scott's comment and was rather upset by it as I saw the danger in it. This discussion, in my opinion, is about one topic only.
We have discussed the ficgs world cup and other formats before, and can again, but this discussion is for one item only, so I did not want to contribute in any way to derailing the discussion. So I decided to refrain from comment as I had nothing to add.
To respond to your comments Thib- timing of the championship cycles will always be an issue, no matter the format. Regardless if you use 12 straight games, my format, or Alvin's. Or any other version.
We already have different groups starting at different times, and the final starting at different times to the other groups. This is just how things happen. It is possible that the final could be over in 8 games and in a shorter time period and time gained.
I think this format is worth trying for at least one cycle. That is also what happens with the otb world championship. There are format changes from time to time. Some are successful, some are not. Matches used to be 24 games in length. Now they are 12 games. One was played as an 8 player double round robin.
Things change as the environment changes.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-10-16 01:12:10)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Hi all,
The recent discussions on FICGS chess wch tie break rules just gave me an idea...
Obviously, there are no satisfying solution (for everyone I mean) for a change in the wch rules. In my opinion, wch rules are great already, even if there are too many draws in matches.
The idea of a cup tournament is here for years but I didn't see any way to include it, in a several rounds version at least, in our calendar because of the wch cycle, the slowly decreasing number of active players, and so on...
But what do you think about this cup format:
An enormous round robin tournament with the 33 (1 player for each piece on the board, it's a symbol but the number is to be discussed) highest rated players who entered the waiting list. It is 32 games per player for 1 round only, duration of games could be the standard one (because there is one round only), longer but maybe fits more the number of games and additional games in other tournaments.
Looks like a great challenge and a real alternative, with very few risks of draw odds, cheating or whatever... It may be the biggest correspondence chess round robin tournament on the internet.
Any opinion? Would you play such tournament?
Thibault de Vassal (2015-10-16 01:12:57)
Wch Match Tie Break Rules
Finally, this discussion inspired me an idea on a possible FICGS cup:
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=11877
Janos Helmer (2015-10-17 04:15:24)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
...Yes !
Garvin Gray (2015-10-17 14:19:12)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
This is different to my Ficgs world cup proposal, which had clear goals in mind.
In my opinion, this just seems like one big round robin and once the games start, it will be rather difficult to feel like the games are anything special, unless the field is red hot.
And a big fat no to the standard time control. Lengthen the rapid type time control if you wish, but do not use the standard type time control.
30 days plus 3 days per move should be satisfactory.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-10-17 18:23:12)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Yes, we may use an intermediate time control, any idea on this is welcome.
Scott Nichols (2015-10-19 21:03:30)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
10 days plus one day per move is my preferred time control.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-10-19 22:52:25)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Scott, you could really play 32 games more at this speed? Are you such a machine? :) That's inhuman, IMO.
Scott Nichols (2015-10-20 00:12:22)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I had over 80 games going steady for over 10 years at the fastest time control offered. Probably not as unusual as you think.
Jose Carrizo (2015-10-20 01:45:23)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Very interesting proposal! 32 games = lots of fun. And 30 days plus 3 days per move seems reasonable.
Clodomiro Ortiz (2015-10-21 09:47:50)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I agree with the ten days+one day per move format,but if considered too rapid i suggest a 20 days+one day per move time control..as you know, several players tend to extent games almost endlessly when fall into unfavorable positions,,
Thibault de Vassal (2015-10-23 22:10:19)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Could someone copy-paste Garvin's original idea for the cup tournament? I'm not sure which thread deals with it (even if I think I remember the main scheme)...
By the way, I agree with your points Garvin, finally question is what tournament do we want? ... Surely we'll have many different answers. Multi-rounds tournaments bring many problems (first is IMO that next rounds start-date still surprise many players), that's what I thought one round could be interesting. Also, it looks like a big challenge with a fast result. But I agree that many top players would think twice before to enter it, but wouldn't they do the same in a multi-round similar event? To be continued.
Jan Ohlin (2015-10-23 12:09:23)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Should there be any sense of self-torture like this should it be ten days+one day per move format which makes it difficult for people to use computers in full. I hope...
Timofey Denisov (2015-10-23 12:22:09)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
10 days start + 3 days for move, I think :)
Garvin Gray (2015-10-23 13:11:56)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I think this whole discussion has missed the original point of why I made the original proposal for the ficgs world cup.
It was to give players who were in the 2100 to 2200 and below more opportunities against players rated 2300 and above, whilst still also giving the top players something to play for ie the tournament win.
So the original concept was that there was no knockout groups, or starting final match, but instead that all players started from round one, and then everyone had to qualify for round two from there, with only the winners to advance at each stage.
The format above could have even taken over from the waiting lists we currently have, which struggle to be filled, as they give more purpose.
Instead, what is being proposed now, is just one big round robin. As someone who has just organised a round robin event, I can assure you, soon after the games have started, the players will soon forget which games are for the world cup, and which are their World championship games, and which are their Rapid SM, or Rapid M games.
Next, the strength of the field. For this event to work with the monster round robin, it really does need most of the top players competing. How can this be ensured to make it a worthwhile event?
Related to this- the time control. Very few serious correspondence chess players are going to sign up to a time control of 10 days initial time when they potentially have 31 games.
Remember, this is meant to be one of FICGS main events on the calendar. That is at least how I view it.
The time control should be 30 days plus 3 days per move if the format is single round robin with 32 or so players.
I still believe the original proposal of mine is the one that should be adopted, not the single round robin that is being discussed now.
I will not be playing in the single round robin.
Stephane Legrand (2015-10-23 17:52:07)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I really prefer Garvin's proposal.
It looks like a real cup and not the enormous round robin tournament first proposed.
Sebastian Boehme (2015-10-24 00:57:15)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
What about to make it easier for most players, split the big round tournament into an A and a B group as preliminaries of say 16 players.
And so oh then the final groups the best 8 of each winner group go to the Final and the last 8 players of each group go to the B final?
This in my opinion could ease a lot for players and still would be challenging.
Stephane Legrand (2015-10-24 07:54:19)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
why not doing Sebastian's proposal and
Garvin's proposal (maybe with a shorter time control)
and you'll see ...
Garvin Gray (2015-10-24 08:40:42)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Here is the original thread: http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=10509
Garvin Gray (2015-10-27 00:53:11)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Has this conversation just died?
Thibault de Vassal (2015-10-27 23:03:32)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Hi Garvin... Surely not!
Well, just read your cup idea again, here are my thoughts:
- In my opinion, in both ways, top players will probably ignore such a tournament. So, the challenge point may be most important.
- In my opinion, the 33 players round robin is even more simple (and avoiding complicate cases depending on the number of entries), more different from FICGS WCH, faster (no choice to make about playing 2 cycles at once) and with more chances of clear victory, but does it really bring something in both cases? Quite subjective at the end.
Stephane Legrand (2015-11-08 09:53:12)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Perhaps the winner can be qualified for a big Wch candidates final or something like this.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-11-10 01:43:46)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
This could be an additional option, right (maybe not so easy according to the duration of the tournament though)...
Garvin Gray (2015-11-10 01:50:55)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I really do believe the first question that needs to be asked is. What is the purpose of this event?
Then after that question has been asked and the answer gotten, then the format is rather automatic.
I believe the purpose of the event should be to have all players start from round one in different round robin groups, and then the winners of these groups progress to the next stage (This could even be the final of 11 players if there is eleven groups).
So in all it could be just two stages.
Scott Nichols (2015-11-10 14:37:41)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
This is all just re-hashing the Wch event. All that needs to be done is 1. Have a tie-break playoff. Each round of (2) games having a shorter time control until a win is reached. 2. There should be no returning champion privileges. Everyone will have to start from the beginning with the final 8 players qualified for a double RR to determine champion.
Bogoljub Teverovski (2015-11-16 21:53:45)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
It's necessary to insert a deadline (Nov 30 the latest) for discussions, and to make final choice quickly (by Dec 10 the latest).
Sergey Zemlyanov (2015-11-16 22:09:27)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Hi all. I try to express my opinion.
The main idea of mass round-robin tournament is good but
I think that the strong players might reject it.
As it seems, I see 2 different ways here:
1st. To have a strong tournament with top players.
2nd. To have a mass tournament just for fun.
In order to organize the 1st tournament you should do the next things:
1. To set up money prizes for winners (more prizes -> more top players might be interested in).
2. To send out invitations for players by email and etc.
3. The time control should not be too fast here if you want a qualitative games
and good tournament.
4. About splitting into the groups.
4.1 Semifinal stage.
I offer to play several qualifying semifinal rounds with 2-3 chessplayers coming into the Final stage.
For example, we have 50 players. So we can create 5 Semifinal groups with 10 players in each with 3 coming out places for the Final.
The time control here I offer 10+2/21 with vacation.
4.2 The Final stage.
I offer 15 players for the Final stage and 14 games for everyone,
or, another variant is 7-8 finalists and 14-16 games with color change for everyone.
About the 2nd tournament my opinion is:
1. To set up money prizes depending on entry fees, for each player.
2. To play mass round robin tournament with 1 game against each player
with faster time control, 10+1/21 for example.
In 1st variant you need to find a contributor to organize the tournament.
But it should be interesting. The 2nd variant with entry fees is interesting too, I think.
AMICI SUMUS,
Sergey Zemlyanov.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-11-17 02:34:49)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Why not a deadline... with a few more opinions, I think it will be possible (if it goes in one direction more than another)!
Anyway, we see that new opinions bring more and more questions and differences :)
On Sergey's points: First of all, I must say that if I could have brought bigger prizes for tournaments, there wouldn't have been such discussions, the whole thing (WCH particularly) would probably work better... but this is not the case, unfortunately :/
As I already said, multi-rounds tournaments are not compatible with longer time controls, and that's a pity. That's why I proposed a 1 round big tourney with a longer time control, but many players seem to be used to the rapid (or even faster) one. Finally, the schedule you propose looks like Garvin's one.
Firhan Firhansyah (2015-11-19 01:02:25)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I like a tournament with short time control about 1 - 3 days per move. And i more like with big prizes
Thibault de Vassal (2015-12-02 02:48:10)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Finally... after a way too long thought on this FICGS cup idea and FICGS wch format, I think that Garvin's idea for this new tournament should be tried.
1) Eros just won the latest WCH with all games drawn again, but not all games in the knockout tournament are draws (e.g. latest candidates final). I think that we must keep this original format because it doesn't exist elsewhere and because it is a real challenge (and it must be possible to beat Eros in 1 game... one day :)) ! Of course, the other reason is that I didn't find any other acceptable way in case of equality.
2) I still think that there are problems in both my cup idea and Garvin's idea in the current context, but this cup will be different enough from the WCH, so the two formats should probably coexist so that each player can choose (or play both).
Garvin Gray (2015-12-02 09:32:52)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
In regards to point 1) I have never made any comments in regards to any of the other knockout matches other than the final match involving Eros.
I have made no proposals to change the format of those matches.
My only proposal is in regards to Eros's final match.
2) The ficgs world cup concept in my original format- if fully implemented, is in fact, dramatically different from the ficgs wch, and has little similarity to it.
What I could see it do though, if popular, is it might make some of the division groups less enticing to enter.
In my opinion, that would just be site evolution. If the high majority of the site prefer- ficgs wch, ficgs world cup and some of the divisions (or one style of the divisions), then an important discovery has been made that is beneficial to the membership.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-12-03 01:55:06)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I forgot to add: One of the reasons I finally chose your format is that most players chose it (I also received a few private comments on the discussion).
Anyway, let's try it. To be continued very soon.
Scott Nichols (2015-12-07 17:34:23)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
The entry fee changes everything for the better IMO. That cuts out the non-serious players. The time controls to me make a difference simply because of advanced age. (will I die before this is finished?) Of course for me, none of it matters since I already retired from CC. Zero games going, yay. What did it for the me was the constant arguing for longer time controls. In the old days of snail mail, that had a point, but not now.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-12-08 00:14:54)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
What do you think about the entry fee idea, Garvin? Scott, do you have any prediction on the number of players according to the entry fee?
Scott Nichols (2015-12-08 01:22:21)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
The 32 players were fine. Time controls (a little long for my taste, but...) are even OK. I had 2 big beefs with the wch. 1. playing a 1400 that just bought a new comp that NOW plays 2000+. If I beat him--0 rating points, draw--I lose many points, etc. 2. The "seeding" of players is not fair IMO, everybody should start at the start line. then the winner can feel much more proud to repeat as champion. I actually may win an ICCF semi-final (#45349), one more game needs to finish. I was seeded 10th of 11 players when it started. I mention this because in far too many of the Wch games were drawn much too early IMO. In ICCF, at least my tour's, the games were fought much longer, down to less than 10 pieces quite often. I looked at this last one and they are calling it a draw in the middlegame. I ask WHY? Just because it's 0.00 for a while, so what? It's the WORLD CH.! How many chances will a player get the opportunity? Each game should be fought to the death. Eros is very busy and has to be getting on in years, make him WORK for it! Sorry to ramble, just a few thoughts...
Garvin Gray (2015-12-08 13:32:12)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Entry fee is a must. But then it could be seen as more elitist than the ficgs wch. Something to consider.
Garvin Gray (2015-12-16 11:33:39)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Has my observation about the entry fee for the ficgs world cup in relation to the ficgs world champs 'derailed' some of the plans.
Thibault de Vassal (2015-12-17 00:19:38)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I'm considering! (takes some time as usual :)) I'm still not able to make a solid opinion on this.
Thibault de Vassal (2016-01-05 17:58:28)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Well, my feeling is that the number of players may be more varying in percentage with an entry fee (we still miss players)... on the other hand, it may more probably look like my idea of a 1-round-big-round-robin... Now I say why not after all. But would it be satisfying for the most? That is the question.
Garvin Gray (2016-01-06 03:08:01)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I thought the only point of difference now was whether to have an entry fee or not?
I thought it was clearly decided that the stages and qualifying concept had been clearly decided in favour of.
Jan Ohlin (2016-01-06 09:34:33)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I usually prefer the simple, easy to understand solutions. We have not yet fully tested using reliable gambit openings alternatively closed openings and if it does not feel good with the other proposals, as then, there is still no reason to rush off
Garvin Gray (2016-01-06 09:38:59)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Jan: This is the thread for the ficgs world chess cup. Are you in the wrong thread?
Jan Ohlin (2016-01-06 17:56:41)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Please calm down, Garvin. There is plenty of time to consider which will be the best decision.
Thibault de Vassal (2016-01-07 19:33:20)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Garvin, we agree on that but I would be surprised if the entry fee would not divide the number of players by a factor of about 2, maybe 3 ... if we have about 70 players in the case without an entry fee, you can imagine the problem with: we would be sometimes able to launch a 1-round tournament (2 RR rounds for from 25 to 32 players would be strange IMO), sometimes not. If we choose no entry fee, the problem is solved, otherwise we must figure out several cases.
Garvin Gray (2016-01-08 00:55:45)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
For the stages concept:Without an entry fee, it will be critically important to go from advertising start, to entry close to competition start and games playing at a fast rate. They can not be allowed to sit around and gather dust.
The longer the time period between when players sign up and when they actually have to play, the more chance that some will not actually end up playing. Hence the discussion of a commitment factor (entry fee).
I have no issues with a no entry fee event, just that if we go with a no entry fee event, it needs to go from ENTRY OPENING DATE to start in a quick period of time to reduce the number of non players.
Herbert Kruse (2016-01-09 22:36:31)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
my ideas:
no change in running cycles, but the new one´s should be with lesser time and more games per opponnent
Jan Ohlin (2016-01-11 06:30:26)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Lesser time and more games per opponent in connection with more difficult openings to handle for chess programs, could be crucial so chess skills will decide, not computer skills.
Garvin Gray (2016-01-12 06:13:47)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I just want to see the tournament get underway.
I do agree though with larger groups, as in groups with nine or eleven players in each. This then reduces the effect of non players on the end result.
Garvin Gray (2016-01-17 15:44:55)
Wch Match Tie Break Rules
Alexis Alban: I apologise if my reply seems a little bit harsh, but are you entering the conversation half way through and have not read the entire thread and preceding discussions?
This thread deals solely with the FICGS World championship and its format, mainly in particular with what happens with drawn matches in the knockout stages.
No one has suggested AT ALL, that the champion has to start again from the beginning (from round one).
That format, what I really wish Thibault would get started on with starting, is from the FICGS world cup, which is a different tournament entirely. It is a completely different structure, with different aims. If you wish to debate that tournament, please move your discussion to that thread.
I am really am trying to work hard to try and prevent thread drift.
Thibault de Vassal (2016-01-18 02:47:01)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Garvin, a few more questions (do not worry, this tournament will exist & it will start this year!), according to your rules, how would you plan stage 1 & stage 2 if we have let's say 73 players for the first edition, and 103 for the second one? I mean the number of players in each tournament for the 2 stages.
Then, well... maybe this FICGS cup should have started at the very beginning of FICGS. I just didn't think that it would be useful and I'm still not sure but anyway, as a new FICGS WCH starts every 8 months, shouldn't it start 4 months after each WCH cycle? The waiting list for the next WCH will be open in a few days already. Shouldn't we take a few more time and do it best?
Garvin Gray (2016-01-18 09:53:00)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I take you mean if in Ficgs World Cup 1 (FWC1) we got 73 players, then in Ficgs World Cup 2 we got 103 players?
Is that correct?
If that is correct, then in FWC1, using a number of 73 players, it would be 4 groups of 10, 3 groups of 11.
For the second stage (finals)= I know this might be a bit controversial, but I think the TER rule should be dropped and those who tie for first should progress. Since we have seven groups, that should mean at the most eleven players in the final.
This will have the by-product in the round robin games of everyone knowing that if they can finish outright first, they knockout everyone from their group immediately.
In FWC2- With 103 players, same format, just more groups.
Thibault de Vassal (2016-01-19 00:25:30)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Yes, correct. Thanks for this answer!
Isn't it a problem that in a few groups, half players take White one time more than Black? ... and some to have one game/opponent less than in other groups? (by the way, a bit harder to code/launch the games)
These points (equity) were always of first importance to me in all tournaments and I don't remember having seen this elsewhere (but I can be wrong, I'm not used to ICCF tournaments, for example). What do you think? Why is it such a problem for you to wait a few more days to "complete" a waiting list? Please note that I'm not really opposed to this idea, I just want to be sure that not all players disagree with this.
Garvin Gray (2016-01-19 02:55:13)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
As long as the group sizes are large ie 9 or more players, then I do not think it is a great concern if some of the groups have even numbers.
As we experience in any of the groups, be it world champs, standard games, rapids etc, there is always someone who does not play, so even if every group was 8 groups of 9 players, one group would become distorted and would really be an 8 player group with the inevitable consequence of some players receiving 4W/3B and others 3W/4B.
If the group size is large, 10 to 11 players per group, then the difference between 5W/4B and 4W/5B is not that great, compared to a group of 6 players, where the split is 3W/2B.
With large group sizes in the first stage, this could mean only a few groups (say six groups of 11 or so players), then the second stage could be held as a double round robin which solves all the problems.
This rule is already included in the current FICGS World champs for when groups are six players or less, but is rarely used.
Thibault de Vassal (2016-01-19 20:24:05)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Okay, that makes sense to me. Well, I'm going to write the rules page for this cup tournament, I'll post it here very soon.
One more question, what would be the limit under which there should be only one round (e.g. less than 33 players -> 32 games per player) according to you?
Thibault de Vassal (2016-01-26 21:40:10)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
One more concern while writing these cup rules: Are norms fair while having one game more with white or black in tournaments? There never was the case before here.
Garvin Gray (2016-01-26 23:35:08)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
In otb tournaments, norms are completely valid regardless of colour balance. So that is no issue.
As I have said before, the tournament can start with 11 players, then someone does not start and that makes it a 10 person round robin, but the norms still count, even though colour balance technically for the actual games played was uneven.
Thibault de Vassal (2016-01-27 00:38:13)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Ok, I agree with that.
Here is a first try for FICGS cup rules:
"FICGS world cup championship is a multi stages tournament. All players who entered the waiting list are involved in single round-robin tournaments (2 stages or more will probably be necessary). All games during the whole cycle are played in 30 days + 1 day / move. As a reminder, the use of chess engines (Stockfish, Houdini, Rybka...) is allowed and encouraged in cup tournaments. Norms are possible according to FICGS general rules.
Round-robin tournaments are groups of 5 to 33 players (most probably 7 to 13). The winner of each group is qualified for the next stage. In case of equality, the player with most wins (and if necessary the player with the lowest tournament entry rating, then the lowest current rating) among the best scores, is declared winner and qualified for the next stage if any. Groups are built grading all players by rating and distributing them to obtain similar elo averages. There will be no replacements in these tournaments.
In the case of a withdrawal, the games won't be rated if a player warns the referee before the tournament starts and at most 15 days after a new stage started but the first one."
Anything to add?
Garvin Gray (2016-01-27 03:38:32)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I think I have a different view on a couple of points, based in part in relation to the feedback I read to comments about TER.
Also, it comes from how I view the structure of the first stage, which is only a few groups and large numbers in each group ie 6 groups of 11 players, rather than 11 groups of 6 players.
========================================
FICGS world cup championship is a two stages tournament. All players who entered the waiting list are involved in single round-robin tournaments.
All games during the whole cycle are played in 30 days + 1 day / move. As a reminder, the use of chess engines (Stockfish, Houdini, Rybka...) is allowed and encouraged in cup tournaments.
Norms are possible according to FICGS general rules.
Round-robin tournaments are groups of 5 to 33 players (most probably 7 to 13). The winner of each group is qualified for the next stage. If there is a tie for first place in a group, each player advances to the second stage.
Groups are built grading all players by rating and distributing them to obtain similar elo averages. There will be no replacements in these tournaments.
=======================================
Effects- with only a small number of groups, and ties for first progressing, it is possible the second stage final could have 7,8,9 or 13 players. That will be determined.
But what I see is the main factor is that with large groups and ties going through, is all the players know they have to make a decent score to advance from the start. A good TER will not get the job done.
Also, if the scores at the top of a group are close, there is more incentive for players to attempt to get a score from their games as being the only one to advance knocks out everyone else, without any complaints about TER rules.
An entry limit will need to be put on when the final stage is double round robin. If there are six qualifiers to the final stage, then it should be DRR. 7 players in the final would make 12 games. Is that too much?
Thibault de Vassal (2016-01-27 22:47:28)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Well, I'm not even sure if I agree on all points but I see no objection at a first sight, so why not (I'm just surprised with this tie rule). Do other players have an opinion on Garvin's points?
Roger Llull (2016-01-28 10:11:23)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I would not like to see groups of fewer than 8 players to remove luck as a factor and to make ties less likely. I would not like to see groups of more than 12 players so they are not overloaded.
Also the tournament should always end in 2 stages so people know it won't be too long, and in case of a tie the winner should be the player with the most wins in the whole tournament.
And one more thing, please implement rules to reduce the number of non players and careless time losses. Like a minimum Elo, a minimum of finished games, and require 2 to 5 E-Points to enter.
Some of this would be valid for the WCH too. For example, stage 2 with only 5 players is ridiculous, because luck can play too big of a role.
Garvin Gray (2016-01-28 23:12:19)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Hello Roger and thanks for your reply,
I would not like to see groups of fewer than 8 players to remove luck as a factor and to make ties less likely.
Garvin- Yes, this is something, at least from my point of view, is what I am trying to avoid. It also reduces the impact of any withdrawals in a group.
I would not like to see groups of more than 12 players so they are not overloaded.
Garvin- Unfortunately, Small number of groups, two stages, and if a large number of entries means something needs to give. So it could be the size of the groups. But hopefully they can be kept to a maximum of 11.
Also the tournament should always end in 2 stages so people know it won't be too long, and in case of a tie the winner should be the player with the most wins in the whole tournament.
Garvin- In my suggested version- I covered the two stage part. I take it your second comment refers to what happens if two or more players end up on the same score in the second stage?
Roger- And one more thing, please implement rules to reduce the number of non players and careless time losses. Like a minimum Elo, a minimum of finished games, and require 2 to 5 E-Points to enter.
Garvin- Quite a few of the withdrawals have come from top players in the past. The most important aspect to reduce the non players is to go from announcement, to closing date of entries, to start a quick and orderly process with no delays.
So after the rules have finally been worked out, have quite a period of time of publicity, then two weeks enter and then Thibault has to close entries straight away, get the draw done and games going.
The longer the lag period between announcement, entries opening, entries closing and games starting, the more chance of players 'going walkabout'.
Roger- Some of this would be valid for the WCH too. For example, stage 2 with only 5 players is ridiculous, because luck can play too big of a role.
Garvin- In the current WCH rules, it is already covered that Double round robin can be used if there are 5 players. I have complained previously to Thibault when he has not implemented this rule when put in a five player group.
In my reworded version for this competition, I asked, at what point should the second stage final for minimum qualifiers move from a double round robin to single round robin?
6 players, 7 players? It does seem like 6 players is the correct number. If only six players qualify from the first stage, then the second stage is DRR. If seven or more qualify, then it will be single round robin. Practically, this would most likely mean there were 6 groups, and each player won their group outright. Or 5 groups. And 4 groups were one outright, with the other group having 2 players finishing tied for first and both advancing to the second stage.
Thibault de Vassal (2016-02-04 00:22:39)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
So, by following this ruleset, at the end there can be several winners, right?
Garvin Gray (2016-02-04 16:19:52)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
That is possible.
You can be certain that any tie break rule for first, especially in a round robin final, will cause more disputes and hard feelings than having a tie for first.
There is no 'fair' way to break ties for first. So why bother when they all scored the same points for first?
Scott Nichols (2016-02-06 01:45:40)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
There is one fair way, sets of 2-game matches with time shortening with each tied match. (better for spectators also) That way, no luck is involved.
Garvin Gray (2016-02-09 03:24:17)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
And then you will just have more complaints about the faster time control and the title being decided by speed of the computer, superior engine.
Also there will be issues of trying to find an acceptable time for all participants. How do you find an acceptable time if players live in USA, Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Oceania region.
If the games are all held at the same time for an accelerated time control, similar to the freestyle concept, then that is dramatically different to the original format.
Rapid playoffs are not ideal in OTB chess, but at least they are played at the same time of day as the original games, and some of the players are not forced to play at 3am, where others get to play at 3pm.
Also, all this requires extra organisation on Thibault's part, unless he writes into the original rules about when the finals will be, but still the playoffs will be still be unfair for the stated reasons.
A different idea could be to have a third round involving those who tied from the second stage. So if three players tied, they would play each other four times.
1 v 2
2 v 3
3 v 1
2 v 1
3 v 2
1 v 3
1 v 2
2 v 3
3 v 1
2 v 1
3 v 2
1 v 3
Garvin Gray (2016-02-09 03:26:24)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
But really overall, I do have to protest, all these discussions I think are having a detrimental effect on the overall tournament.
Most players just want the tournament to begin. Seeing all these extremely small detailed discussions being talked through I know from personal experience irl just drives players away.
The longer they go on for, the more you lose players. This is why I keep saying, get on with it and get the tournament GOING.
Thibault de Vassal (2016-02-11 15:52:20)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Don't worry Garvin, I'm quite used to it :) Anyway, one or several winners after round 2 is ok for me, I only think that we must avoid any advanced chess games or a casual third round.
The tournament will start on July 1st (between the next 2 WCH cycles), the waiting list will be open in June (2 weeks before the start?), but it will be advertised a while before.
Garvin Gray (2016-02-12 01:26:27)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Ahh thank you. Some definite answers about progress. And dates :) This now allows players the opportunity to prepare. Time to get the word out.
This now can set a bit of a FICGS calendar :)
Garvin Gray (2016-11-17 07:36:41)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
With ficgs now back up and running and seemingly most of the back end issues sorted out, I am now bringing up the topic of the FICGS World Cup and when will it start.
We had a format, a concept and almost a start date, then the whole site collapsed.
With now that WCH has started, the very first Ficgs World Cup could start in early January, with possible plans to hold one every six months (rough schedule).
Bogoljub Teverovski (2016-11-17 10:12:51)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Yes, Ficgs World Cup should start in early January!
Thibault de Vassal (2016-11-17 20:13:35)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
It should have started 4 months after the last WCH cycle... well, it was not humanly possible. So it was planned to start on March 1st, entries during February (4 months after this WCH). Why january?
Garvin Gray (2016-11-17 20:46:24)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Ok then. At least I have a starting date :)
Herbert Kruse (2017-01-11 13:33:50)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
can u open entry earlier?
i forgot sometimes to register
Thibault de Vassal (2017-01-20 22:22:36)
GM Eros Riccio 12th WCH & chess
Herbert is probably right...
But well, as we'll have a CUP championship soon, all games could be played on King's gambit for example (or another thematic - see the other thread)
Thibault de Vassal (2017-01-22 03:11:36)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
As you can see, earlier was probably too early...
Garvin & all who participated into this discussion, what do you think about making the Cup tournament a thematic chess (e.g. King's gambit) championship?
Garvin Gray (2017-01-22 10:00:16)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Absolutely bloody not. There has already been a long discussion and a lot of work put into getting a somewhat agreed format.
Thibault, this is exactly what I expected you to do with this ficgs world cup, try and renege on the agreement at the last minute and attempt to change the format.
And with this concept of some kind of thematic championship, no one is going to agree on which opening to play.
We have an agreed format for the ficgs world cup and all you have to do is open the entry list for it, which starts February 1st for play beginning March 1st.
You renege from this and I will almost certainly walk from this site.
Roger Llull (2017-01-22 12:55:21)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I'd prefer to have something different created from the ground up with mainly top players in mind, where the draw problem really is. But top players' time is precious, that's why I proposed bigger prices sponsored by people who are interested in specific openings.
This cup seems especially favorable for intermediate players, and the chance to score a few draws against higher rated ones may actually be a good thing that would be lost with complicated openings.
Roger Llull (2017-01-22 13:07:38)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
*Prizes* is what I meant, not prices...
Jan Ohlin (2017-01-22 15:07:19)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
FICGS WM will be matches where half of the games is different thematic, every player choice two, and the Cup will be really many games with short time, awoiding draws that way? Is this the discussion!?
Thibault de Vassal (2017-01-22 19:00:28)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Hi Garvin! I'm just still open to ideas and was curious about your opinion (it could have been different after all)...
This discussion is still fresh, so let's see how it evolves, let's start this cup as it was decided and maybe we'll have a change in the WCH format or maybe we'll have later a kind of "King's championship" on the King's gambit with a different format, to be sure to try everything ^^
Garvin Gray (2017-01-23 17:12:46)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
If the WCH format changes, and becomes something like this, or incorporates elements of the current FICGS World Cup two stage format, then of course a different concept for the world cup 'could/should' be considered.
That being said, if the Ficgs WCH format changed to something similar to the current ficgs world cup, especially if it involved a final stage being a round robin of some number of players, then it would start to look like the format that is used at ICCF.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-01-24 02:39:37)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I started to change the waiting lists page... Most probably, the WCH will not change (for the moment at least), the CUP waiting list will be open next week (rules page should be visible tomorrow), and possibly a "KING supertournament" thematic event may happen from time to time (later) with rules still to be defined (later)... To be continued.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-01-25 00:19:48)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Garvin, I uploaded a first version of the cup rules (see waiting lists)... is it near enough to what we discussed in the forum according to you?
Garvin Gray (2017-01-25 09:18:35)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I have read the formatted rules. The only difference between what is in this thread and what is in the entry conditions is how ties for first will be broken.
If you read back through this thread, I said:
Garvin- For the second stage (finals)= I know this might be a bit controversial, but I think the TER rule should be dropped and those who tie for first should progress. Since we have seven groups (this was based on this discussion at the time- Garvin insert 25/1/17), that should mean at the most eleven players in the final.
This will have the by-product in the round robin games of everyone knowing that if they can finish outright first, they knockout everyone from their group immediately.
--------------------
And we continued discussing the rules and it was agreed to remove the TER and other 'tie' rules have those who finish equal first all progress.
So that rule needs to be changed.
As quite a few of the entrants will not have seen this thread, or any of the other discussions, perhaps a slight explanation for round one of how this event is different to the FICGS world champs would be helpful to 'sell' the event.
As in. For the FICGS World Chess Cup, The Highest Rated Player will be seed 1 and placed in Group A, Second Highest Rated Player will be seed 2 and placed in Group B and so forth for seed 3, seed 4 etc till all players have been allocated to their respective groups.
All players start from the first round and there is no knockout stage.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-01-25 15:58:25)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Oh ok. As soon as it is different from WCH rules, we can try this... and it's even simpler. Let's hope that the "3 or 4 players tie with the same score in a group" case will not happen too often though, otherwise we may have a final stage with two dozens of players :) Possibles look like huge and cycles may not look like each other.
The cup rules page is updated.
Garvin Gray (2017-01-26 02:30:15)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Before I first proposed abolishing the first place tie break rules, I went through a lot of the stage 1 WCH groups and checked how many ties there had been for first, and especially looked for multiple ties.
There were very few indeed.
The odds of three or four players finishing on the same score, when the group size is likely to be 9 or 11 players and the ratings of the players will be from 2300 to 1200 is extremely low.
Hence why I proposed the removal of the rule in the first place.
The rules are accurate now.
As to when to open the waiting list- I have also commented in this thread that having the waiting list open for too long will increase the number of forfeits when play begins.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-01-26 04:11:12)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
How long should it be open according to you? 1, 2, 3 weeks?
Garvin Gray (2017-01-26 11:37:58)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
1) Being a new event, an email should be sent to all members explaining this event and that it is a main championship event. And that entries will open Wednesday 8th February.
2) Entries open Wednesday 8th February and close Wednesday 1st March. That gives everyone three weeks to enter.
3) Entries close Wednesday 1st March. The event needs to start straight after this date.
I am aware that you need to update ratings, work out the groups, load everything into the server to get the event started, so there is a lag time after March 1st.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-01-27 01:53:33)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
It should be ok. Let's do this way!
Herbert Kruse (2017-02-08 11:51:22)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
today?
Garvin Gray (2017-02-15 23:34:39)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Woohoo. Entries are over 70 with two weeks still to go!
Thibault de Vassal (2017-02-18 22:51:08)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
That's quite a good result indeed! Well done...
Thibault de Vassal (2017-03-01 20:48:56)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
96 players... luckily, 12 groups of 8, that's the first time we create groups with an even number of players.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-04-21 22:54:00)
WCh and other ramblings
Thanks for these words & analysis Peter! Yes, I don't know yet if Eros will fight one more time to retain the title but obviously he did it very well during these last years... the strongest engine alone would certainly not have been able to achieve this. Anyway, Herbert (& others) looks like to be ready for the challenge and this could be very interesting to see such a match! Well, let's see how this tough candidates final with Pablo finishes before :)
Well, the cup format was a first step towards a championship with more chances for everyone... the future "King's supertournament" will be another one with a thematic bigger round-robin that should definitely avoid the drawish problem & a new attempt to give sense to correspondence chess. To be continued...
Daniel Parmet (2017-07-01 07:48:12)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I know this thread is old but I feel Garvin made an amazing point that got lost:
"It was to give players who were in the 2100 to 2200 and below more opportunities against players rated 2300 and above, whilst still also giving the top players something to play for ie the tournament win."
I haven't played actively since 2010 for exactly this reason. I did play over 470 games though but found that I was permanently locked into this rating band despite being far beyond the skill level of this rating band solely because I was never allowed to play stronger players. So I moved on to ICCF where I easily was able to compete against 2370+ players all the time.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-07-01 22:35:35)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Well, one fact is that we do not have players rated over 2300+ enough anymore... I don't know how important is this "band" effect as I know players who went through but I guess it would be worth to make statistics.
Garvin Gray (2017-07-02 04:33:16)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I have wondered for a long while whether:
1) The 2300 rated players or higher who started on this site, were not really 2300 in comparison to quite a few 2200 or so players
2) That deflation in the rating system at the top end has occurred in the system over time
Daniel Parmet (2017-07-05 21:00:10)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
It doesn't help that there are so many massively underrated players. I haven't played here in 4 years. My rating here is 2135 while I am 2379 on ICCF.
I will imminently draw an 1852 rated player here which seems like a big upset and my rating will take a big hit. But on ICCF this IM player is 2352. I would lose about 1 rating point. So here I out rate him by 283 points while on ICCF I outrate him by 27 points.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-07-08 19:26:50)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Rules asked by players do not converge all the time, that's the least to say. Many prefer that games lost on time be punished by massive losses of elo points to prevent games lost on time, while many prefer that ratings stay coherent, whatever the losses (mainly on time)... And of course, games played at FICGS are not as important as games played at ICCF for most strong players. Conclusion is easy. But maybe there should be a change in the rating calculation to create some inflation... This could be worth a discussion.
Daniel Parmet (2017-07-10 00:28:19)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Well, I think there needs to be something less in the sense of rating inflation but perhaps floors added for players with high ratings for ICCF. There is no way you can tell me an IM 2350+ player should be allowed to have a sub 2100 rating here. In general, I am not a fan of the concept of flooring... but in this case there are many such underrated players that bring down the entire rating average here.
Garvin Gray (2017-07-13 17:09:00)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
A better question to ask is: How did that player get that rating so low?
Thibault de Vassal (2017-07-20 16:31:47)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Ok, I finally slightly changed the rating calculation in this way... let's see how the whole thing will evolve (it will take time anyway).
Herbert Kruse (2017-09-07 11:47:10)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
the problem is, that computer helps any player and so its slowly doing down
so in consequence not playing holds your rating high
but there should be a strong motivation for playing
Herbert Kruse (2017-09-07 11:49:18)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
rating slowly going down i meant
Garvin Gray (2017-10-01 06:36:44)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Quick observation from beginning of final round. Players are not stuffing around and taking forever with their opening moves.
Knowing they have 16 games to play and a time control of 30 days plus 1 day per move, players seem to be getting through the opening phase quickly, to get as much extra time on their clock in all their games as possible.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-10-01 13:40:40)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Herbert: Yes it was, now it should be less the case (about ratings). Let's see in a few months.
Garvin: About CUP final, yes looks like reasonable to play the opening as fast as possible (just like in WCH)... 16 games is really tough to manage in the middle game, that's why I was more favourable to a longer time control for this cycle, but obviously many players are faster than me :)
Garvin Gray (2018-01-14 02:43:50)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Projections for the winning score are now being made. I thought I would bring these discussions to the thread.
Be careful about not actually discussing the games as so not to influence those games.
It seems like 9.5 or 10 out of 16 will be the winning score.
For any player to get a FEM norm, they had to score 12/16.
Now looking at this field and how the scores have panned out, does 75% seems rather unrealistic?
9.5/16 has already been recorded by Ortiz, so use a golfing analogy. Ortiz is in the clubhouse with 9.5 and everyone else is still on course playing out their last holes.
Anything less than 9.5 is no good.
Quite a few players still have so many games still going that making predictions is a rather forlorn exercise at this stage.
Thibault de Vassal (2018-01-14 02:48:25)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
I agree that many things can happen yet :)
Clodomiro Ortiz (2018-01-14 03:08:02)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
My observations are just based on a rapid view of the remaining games..i agree that a few players still have to many pending games to make an accurate prediction,so the last word has not been said yet...
Clodomiro Ortiz (2018-01-15 15:00:38)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
in my former comment shoud be read too many,not to many
Clodomiro Ortiz (2018-01-18 10:55:56)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Dear chessfriends,as someone nicely said,I am now at the clubhouse.i like that..On that account,i think legitimate to extend my congratulations,in advance,to the winner or winners of this first CHESS CUP,no matter who might be,because they are not responsible that anything can happen..what a lesson..Thanks for letting me be part of this event..Yesterday i was only ringing the bells before DEATH KNOCKS AT THE DOOR..WAKE UP my family,WAKEUP LEGITIMACY,that is my wife name,GET VACATION if necessary those who may feel tired at the final stage,,,SPECIAL THANKS FROM MY HEART TO THIBAULT,for keeping on,although not everyone is always satisfied,chess is beautiful but men not so much..What a wonderful world anyway..finally,i want to point out that nobody gave me one single point.What is not too bad...GOOD LUCK..Now i go silent until the end...
Thibault de Vassal (2018-01-18 18:09:44)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Cheers! :)
Garvin Gray (2018-02-22 11:22:43)
Norm qualification criteria, incorrect?
In looking at the current group/event that I am playing in, which is Rapid SM 15, according to the current way FICGS sets the scores for norms, to get a FIM norm for that event, FEM is at 4 and FIM as at 4.5 for all players.
It has occurred to me that this is different to how fide works out norm opportunities in round robin and swiss events.
In those events, each players average rating of their opponents is worked out and then that is plugged into the system and then that expected score is used to work out what score they need to get a FEM or FIM norm or higher.
To explain further as that might be unclear.
In the group I am talking about, PoulErik Jorgensen has an equal chance of getting an FEM or FIM norm than someone who is rated lower than him, even though that other player is playing a field who is stronger.
So using the FIDE way and the percentages for FEM and FIM norm, I play and average rating field of 2337.8, round up to 2338. This means that in a category 4 event, I need to score 56 percent, or 3.5 for an FEM and 67 percent or 4 points, not 4.5 for a FIM norm.
Now also doing some further calculating, Alex Wosch is able to score a FSM norm as his average rating of opponents is 2,329 and would then need to score 4.5. Under the current arrangement, he is deprived of this opportunity.
Therefore, I could give a rundown of all players, but I am of the conclusion that the current method of calculating Norm qualifications is inadequate and needs to be refined.
My thoughts were triggered to this from the FICGS world cup when any player to reach a FEM norm needed to score 12/16, which was clearly an outlandish score given the field.
Thibault de Vassal (2018-03-14 23:12:38)
A few questions to Nelson Bernal Varela
Nelson Bernal Varela is an early FICGS correspondence chess player, now rated 2277 but also rated 2359 at ICCF (Correspondence Chess Master - CCM).
Last but not least, and as all poker holdem players here probably noticed, he is also our ranked #1 for years, who just reached an outstanding poker rating of 2382, while number two is now rated "only" 2212. A good occasion to ask him a few questions, that he kindly accepted to answer.
-----------------------
- Hello Nelson! You are the 2nd most active player at FICGS for years now. Everyone here probably noticed your incredible results in poker tournaments. "Correspondence poker holdem" was probably a strange idea as it is very unusual and very different from "Internet poker". What's your opinion on this and on the presence of a card game (played without money) at FICGS?
NBV: There are more important things than money and one of those is HONOR; It is honorable to be a chess master, international master, grandmaster, world chess champion at ICCF and at FICGS and to be number one in the ranking. It is honorable to be a FICGS world champion at Go and to be first in the ranking, it is honorable to be poker world champion at FICGS poker and in my case, it is an honor to be number one at poker here at FICGS during the last years, understanding that our general level of play has improved remarkably. None of these activities produces money, but to achieve any of the mentioned titles, it is necessary to have extraordinary abilities.
When I was about 18 years old, I had the opportunity to meet a person with immense material wealth, we spent whole evenings playing chess and then I told him my perceptions about each movement of the game. He thanked me for my chess explanations and paid me with good money. That wealthy man in his turn told me about life and recommended that I should always be proud of the gifts I had, since he knew, with all the money he had and being able to hire the best grandmasters in the world, that it could hardly come at the level of chess master. That person told me that the intellect can be turned into money whenever you want.
Now, by playing poker without money at FICGS, I understood that it was my extraordinary and wonderful opportunity to study-learn-perfect and test my poker theories without costing me a single dollar. In FICGS there is no money, but thanks to the knowledge I gained playing poker in FICGS, today I can go after the money in online poker rooms and probably in OTB poker tournaments. I am studying the possibility of becoming a professional poker player.
- The understanding of your opponent's behaviour is usually quite important at Poker. Do you manage to establish some profiles while playing so many simultaneous hands & games? Did you build any method?
NBV: Today I am sure that the most important thing to raise, and keep raising my level in poker, has been to build a psychological profile of mine, to get to know Nelson Bernal Varela in depth and above all to understand me, accept me, love me and be work every day eliminating my technical errors, strategic, psychological that make me play badly. I am aware that in poker I can play perfectly and still lose, what I can not forgive me is playing badly, which is why I work hard correcting my wrong decisions.
Of course, there is a space in my brain where I have built a psychological profile of each contender, that profile I have been able to elaborate with all the information that is provided to me in each hand we play. The way each of us plays, gives reliable information about our personality.
About my method I can write the following: A few years ago, I created a table in excel, where I had all the games with each contender, I identified them with the FICGS numeration and each movement in each hand (preflop, flop, turn, river ) it I was writing and studying; I started to add technical-psychological variables that seemed important to me, resulting in 20 variables that I had to qualify in each movement. With the passage of time and my effort, I no longer needed the excel table and I did not use it again (it was exhausting and time consuming) because I was assimilating things faster and with greater depth. Today I can say that I evaluate these 20 variables in a natural way, as if I was breathing and that when I am at a poker table, online or real, after a few minutes I get the psychological profile of the table and each of my opponents. In the pocket of my shirt I keep a small paper with the list of variables, periodically reread it and I wonder if I should modify, remove or add something.
- You won 1007 poker games, and lost only 380, with a ratio usually going from 57% to 80% according to your best opponents. Undoubtly you know the mathematics hidden behind poker but that may not explain everything. How did you learn to play?
NBV: Mathematics is an ingredient in poker, in the same way that my psychological aspects and of my opponents (I recommend reading-studying about four times the book “The Poker mindset†of Ian Taylor and Matthew Hilger), it is vital to understand the Law of Large Numbers. Next I make a list of topics that I consider important to raise the level of poker; compete with EV+ cards, you have to know the small ball theory of Negreanu (but not apply it, hahaha) you have to always look at the texture of the board, you have to evaluate your reality and your future, also that of your opponents (act and power), the position to talk is important, the stack, the personality of the table, know who has the panic button on. All these and other variables must be evaluated in the few seconds they have to make a move and the only important thing is to make the right decision according to the circumstances. There is a good list of poker books to read... it is mandatory to have read about 15 poker books.
- As for me, I may be wrong but I can't imagine that you reached such a rating without special techniques & maybe by optimizing it in some ways... Of course, "rating management" is not a problem, and it is only one thing with a limited impact, but maybe you have some other secrets? What about this "+1" technique that I noticed in many of our games, if this is not a secret? :)
NBV: In these years I have used different techniques that I had to read, study, learn, repeat, modify, invent and sometimes eliminate. Poker is a sport that seems easy, with time one manages to understand that it has an amazing complexity, today I consider poker to be as complex as chess and I study them in a "similar" way. As an example, I have tried to create "openings in poker"; based only on probabilities I invented something that I called mirror theory and another "opening" that I called opposite outs. I am fascinated by mathematics and from the mathematical perspective they are perfect "theories-openings", but I have lost tournaments and a lot of money for applying such theories in mistaken emotional moments. In poker it is important to never lose sight of the Law of Large Numbers and be aware that this LAW likes to make fun of each one of us... I am working on giving an emotional nuance to my theories "mirror" and "opposite outs". There are moments when perfect mathematics becomes an unforgivable psychological error...
For the last few months I have modified my way of playing and my results have improved; Today it must be much more difficult to win a game me, thanks to small and imperceptible adjustments that of course only I know, because I have followed my mistakes-successes-evolution in the game over several years.
- Isn't it too frustrating for you to play heads up only (here at least) ? Of course it is a way to improve this important technical case but we know that many complexities come with 3 to 8 players on the table, which is the most common case in professional poker tournaments.
NBV: Currently I spend little time every day playing heads-up in FICGS, thanks to the fact that I have the profile of each contender. The 4-5 hours that I study poker daily, include practice in micro limits in cash tables of 6 players and tournaments in tables of 8-9 players. I think I'm covering the whole range of possibilities, experiencing game situations between 1 and 8 contenders.
- What do you think about computer analysis in poker? Do you think it could make a difference here just like the way we play advanced chess?
NBV: I think the algorithms are ready to be written in machine language and the question is where are those algorithms? Well, in the brains of the best players in the world and in their games compiled in huge databases. But programming language can be accelerated with artificial intelligence brains, making A.I. studying databases of the best professionals, playing with itself millions of games and building an invincible TACTIC-STRATEGIC SYSTEM, similar to chess software and GO... I think preflop and flop play would be very similar between humans and artificial intelligence, but on the turn and on the river artificial intelligence would take considerable advantage, but in the short time the level of human poker would rise because artificial intelligence would teach us to play poker, this event that would diminish the profits of the professionals. It will always be said in favor of poker that because it is an incomplete game of information, to make computer algorithms are quite complicated, but despite that, I am sure that artificial intelligence will far surpass the best human poker player. It is possible that an artificial intelligence that plays a perfect poker already exists, but unlike GO and chess, poker does produce a lot of money. Due to the money factor, in today's world, it is very difficult that there is a Prometheus willing to steal fire from the gods and give it to mankind...
- How would you describe your relation to games in general?
NBV: I can summarize it in one of the first chess books I had the fortune to read, by the great Danish master Bent Larsen, "I play to win"
- When did you start to play chess & poker? Do you play other games?
NBV: My first contact with chess was at the age of nine, it was love at first sight and until death separates us; I must confess that for some years we have been separated, due to my stupidity and my erroneous decisions. I have always been self-taught in any subject, my method is to buy about 10 to 15 books of the subject that interests me and I read them thoroughly, sometimes 3 or 4 times; already with that information in my head and thanks to the constant practice, I build MY SYSTEM (Nimzowitch) according to my personality, my dreams, my desires, my anguish, my fears... I was youth champion of Bogotá, for 4 years , my OTB level was strong, but I had to abandon chess because I had to work and survive; Being an athlete in Colombia is an absolutely difficult thing, but being a chess player is extremely complicated since there is no support or respect from society and you can not live by chess, because it does not produce money.
I met poker in 2009 in FICGS, at that time I was in a terrible emotional situation, trying to get away from a relationship with a woman that I should never approach and where I wasted valuable time and energy. In that context, looking for my thoughts to be occupied, I ended up playing the FICGS C-24 poker tournament and tied the first place with three more players; I kept playing, without understanding what was happening with the cards and obviously, losing, until in 2010 I won the FICGS D-21 tournament with perfect score, 6 out of 6. I had already bought-read my first beginner book: Poker for Dummies of Harroch and Krieger, but my poker was coarse, wild, street, intuitive, amateur, without dedication or study. In the background of this paragraph, the affection and gratitude that I have for FICGS is condensed, a place where I have been able to build-practice-study-test MY SYSTEM in poker.
I play Backgammon, I do not care that it may sound pretentious-petulant, but I have a very strong level and I have not read my first book yet. Hahaha. Any year I register as a participant in the world championship and I will cause disgust to more than one professional. Hahaha. Unlike chess and poker, backgammon does not cause me stress, on the contrary, I feel a lot of joy and pleasure when I play backgammon. I feel something similar with math, reading and music. It's true and I'm proud, I've always been a NERD.
- We all know how difficult it is to reach a number 1 rank but it is even more difficult to keep it during a long time. What is your motivation? Do you have more goals to achieve (chess & other games included) ?
NBV: My motivation in any activity I undertake in my life is to do it with absolute passion (passion is everything you would do to get a breath of air, in the second before dying by drowning or suffocation).
I have several goals to accomplish before December 2021; In the ICCF correspondence chess I must reach the 2400 elo and get the titles of International Master, SIM and Grand Master, also perform outstanding performances in world championships. In FICGS Chess I must complete my Master and International Master titles and overcome the 2450 elo, also snatch the title from our eternal champion Eros Riccio. You're warned Eros, hahaha. On the LSS site where I also play, www.chess-server.net I want to be a world champion.
In POKER I find myself playing micro limits bets in several online sites; in June 2018 I hope I have built some bankroll. In July of 2018 I must be evaluating my poker to know if my immediate goal is to become a professional poker player, that would completely change my chess goals and I would have to dedicate myself to OTB poker. At the moment I study and practice poker every day, about 4-5 hours a day. At this moment my poker is full of errors that I am eliminating one by one. MY SYSTEM needs to win and raise money in the micro limits, so that it can succeed in professional poker.
In chess OTB I should become a great master, but that topic should be left as a goal for after 2021. I could achieve the record of being the oldest human in getting the title of Grand Master OTB. Hahaha.
In backgammon I would like to play some important tournaments in USA and Europe and maybe to be OTB world champion, but at the moment I do not have clarity on how to do it. I must mature that idea.
I hope they invent immortality before I die and that I have enough money to buy it, because time is what I need to realize all these and other dreams...
- Finally, playing so many games on several websites (obviously with serious ambitions in each game & place) may look quite inhuman and exhausting, does your body or brain say "stop" sometimes? Do you train by melting sports and brain games just like Kasparov did in the past?
NBV: It's true, it takes willpower and a lot of resistance to sustain the pace that I carry. To take care of my body, I am doing daily exercise for 60 to 90 minutes, including routines of strength, elasticity, speed and endurance. I also practice table tennis to preserve the agility of my body. I'm also divorced and I do not have a girlfriend... Hahaha
- By curiosity, do you consider playing Go in the future, even after... 2021? (which would surely be an enormous charge more, but the game is really interesting)
I have a kind of commitment with the best Colombian GO player, exchange of classes, he makes me a competitive player of GO and I turn him into a competitive player of backgammon. But the truth is that I do not have time... it could be after 2021...
- Do you confirm that you are not (entirely or partly) AlphaZero or any kind of A.I. (yet) ? :-)
NBV: Hahaha, of course I would like to be a real centaur, human with machine power, I do not care what physical form I should adopt. I offer myself publicly as a guinea pig in projects of technological singularity. Hahaha
- Many thanks for your detailed and instructive (impressive as well) answers! My best wishes of luck in all your games and future tournaments.
Thibault de Vassal (2018-03-21 20:37:41)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
[a few posts before & after were edited or deleted]
As I just said in the game thread, that's why I always prefered the knockout format :/ Such suspicions are a cancer in round-robin championships and a pity as this was a real tough & interesting tournament (initiated by Garvin, for the memories).
Of course, this comment is not a judgement in any matter. Systems are the problem, not the problems caused by the systems.
Anyway, let's wait the end of the tournament, then I'll tell and explain my decision, that will eventually open a new debate to change the rules if necessary (I would be surprised though).
Thibault de Vassal (2018-03-30 20:19:27)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Hello Herbert,
I think you may misunderstand what Garvin said there: "The simple explanation is that I had the white rook on h3 instead of h2" ... probably meaning that the analysis was based on the wrong position at one time or another / since one or several moves.
Let's wait the end of the tournament. Of course, losses on time are always bad in such tournaments, but it can happen for many reasons.
Thibault de Vassal (2018-03-31 19:39:34)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
Well, in all cases I think that it shouldn't be allowed to designate anyone publicly as a (possible/probable) cheater. This would certainly lead to a terrible climate of suspicion and unfriendship. So, this has been added to the FICGS rules (11.1):
"To maintain a friendly community, any cheating complaint should be addressed to the referee and should not be made publicly in games comments or in the forum, otherwise with the same consequences."
Some comments in this thread will now be moderated this way.
Thibault de Vassal (2018-06-09 19:39:18)
FICGS chess cup : proposal
This 1st chess cup just ended, time to comment :)
First of all, congratulations to Herbert Kruse for this nice win! The opposition was strong and the final result not so easy to guess until a few weeks ago, obviously...
Second of all, to end the cheating suspicion topic, I can only say this: correspondence chess is not soccer, round-robin tournaments are not knockouts, when participating in such a championship on the internet, we have to accept the risk that a few players may (for any rare and obscure reason here IMO) intentionally lose to another one. BUT there is definitely no way to be sure about that, no way to adjudicate games 100% fairly on such suspicions, whatever happening in any game. Of course, it would always be very easy to cheat discreetly enough. And once again, I designed the FICGS WCH to avoid as much as possible what happened during this tournament, it is players choice to accept this and to choose the tournaments they will play in the future. Now let's see what the second edition will propose :)
Thibault de Vassal (2018-09-24 00:15:43)
Some questions to H. Kruse, WCH finalist
After that the last FICGS chess WCH final match finished, the choice was made again to ask a few questions to Eros Riccio's challenger: Herbert Kruse, for the 2nd time. He kindly accepted to answer it so let's learn a bit more on our top-ranked correspondence chess player.
______________________________
Hello Herbert, you're not really a player to introduce as you're very active here and at several chess websites for years, with outstanding ratings in each one (as far as I know), you're the 1st FICGS CUP winner & several times FICGS WCH challenger, each time facing "the wall" Eros Riccio, what could you tell us about yourself particularly as a chess & correspondence chess player?
- i began late with 16 to play my first tournament game, but with 18 i already was kicked out of a night club in company with tony miles ;) (dresscode) had vlastimil hort as trainer for a short time and played in teams with gutman, michalchisin, klovans, gipslis and some other GMs. corr chess i began, because i love to find the truth and because of freestyle, where i began to build very strong computers
What kind of computers do you build? Is it all dedicated to chess?
- i have several dual xeon e5 computers with 64gb ddr3 and 16 to 20 real cores and they all play chess ;)
Once again, GM Eros Riccio managed to draw the 12 games of the match. What are your feelings on these games? How did you estimate your chances to destabilize your opponent in the openings and to create complications enough with White (or Black)?
- this time my feelings were neutral. 1% chances to win, but i hoped he would lose his concentration if i began more games with him (we played 6 other games at the same time)
Doesn't "1% chances to win (the match)" mean about 0.17% to win only one game with White, even when losing one with Black? Isn't it a bit pessimistic after all, or is it the new so called Riccio-effect? :)
- if the strongest players face each other there is no win possible, except some has a mouse slep or forgot something during human interfacing
When did you start playing correspondence chess and what changed since that time? What attracted you most in the game?
- 2004 and evaluation of the position is the key point of improvement since then. attractive was to be better than actual world class players :)
Could you tell us anything on the way you work chess and play your correspondence games? Any tip or secret? (nothing to lose to ask :))
- with black i play for fastest way to 0.00 and with white i try every promising way to make a game for a longer time complicated
Do you use several ones at the same time when analyzing a game? (still grabbing some tips)
- i only use the newest stockfish versions of brainfish and corchess because the other engines are not so good. because i have many games i decide which one gets the most cores and time and let them run in infinity mode until i am happy that can be after 1 week or more sometimes.
You're not far to rank 2nd as a poker player at FICGS, you obviously started to take on Big Chess as well. What other games do you play? Did you consider to play Go already?
- i played go against the german champion and lost so i quit :)) played backgammon money game and internet (in fibs with kit woolsey i played over 100 matches) in bridge i was best bidder in germany 1994 to 1995, but dont play much nowadays
Do you have specific goals to achieve as a player?
- 2 goals, since a long time: be ficgs world champion and win one german bridge championship
How do you imagine correspondence chess evolution within a decade? What kind of engines/computers do you expect to use and what will look like centaur chess according to you? (in other words, what part will remain to the human player in the decision?)
- i think the engines today are already unbeatable, so in 20 years the would still not lose and chess is dead since about 4 years
What did you think about Google Deepmind's Alpha Zero performance vs. Stockfish?
- it was a joke because they let a bad version of stockfish play. i would not have lost one game against az0 and maybe won 2 til 5 out of 100
Conditions of this AlphaZero vs. Stockfish match were very specific (opening books, unbalanced hardware...) What weaknesses did you detect in AlphaZero play?
- it was the lack of precision, what would let it lose against stockfish in its tuned newest version but i look from a view of a player who is used to play with deep 60 :)
It seems that computers did not completely take on Bridge yet, what do you expect within a decade?
- i have not seen bridge programms, but the game is so easy that it must be already mastered by computers
Thibault de Vassal (2018-10-31 03:04:21)
World Championship Tie-breaks
Well, the 1 day per move rule has several reasons to remain (including avoiding more forfeits/losses on time), and coherence is really important IMO. I do not agree that Eros cannot be beaten (I couldn't do it by myself though ^^), I trust Murphy's law :) I see several reasons to all these consecutive victories, Eros explained many by himself, and I don't think it's enough to change the format, by the way we now have the CUP format for all players who prefer other parameters (thanks Garvin!).
As for Twitch & other good ideas like this, truth is that there should have been many Freestyle tournaments these last years but I couldn't organize it anymore and still can't at the moment :/ But most important is that despite of computers supremacy in correspondence chess, now Go & poker holdem, I'm convinced that the best years of FICGS are to come, and it will bring more competition, new champions & good things. Let's wait & see!
Thibault de Vassal (2018-11-18 23:42:18)
World Championship Groups
Hi Garvin! Yes, I remember it was an important point in our discussion about the CUP cycle (where the rule is 100% strict on this point)... Of course, I always built additional WCH groups if the distribution was very similar. Quite the same about replacements, groups were changed if the elo average was about the same. Just an opportunity for late players to get in and to complete groups if there were 2 or 3 forfeits... It cannot be completely bad, don't you think?
Daniel Parmet (2020-04-28 22:59:06)
The State of correspondence chess
I have played correspondence chess now for 13 years. During that time, I have played 983 correspondence games. These days I mostly play at ICCF and some of these issues may be ICCF specific... but since ICCF has no forum and I want to get a sense of the health of correspondence chess in general... I posit my thoughts here.
First of all, I think the number of correspondence players and the number of correspondence games are decreasing across the board on all correspondence websites due to the things I want to talk about.
Second, I primarily shifted my playing to ICCF years ago for two reasons: 1) The higher level of competition available; 2) The norms available. Although I was concerned with their fees which are usually minor but, in many cases, certain organizers do construct outlandish tournaments that you need to be wary of (looking at you Venezuela).
On the first point, I think ICCF is a little more open to high caliber players competing up until a point (they really try to prevent you from playing a 2450+ player until you are 2450+ yourself). And the rating protections get tougher and tougher the further you go but they make it easy to play 2300 players. While most websites outside of ICCF, usually have one annual Cup / WCH or Thematics, these other websites usually make it impossible to play anyone more than a few hundred points above you no matter your rating outside of these few events.
On the second point, I think ICCF norms are somewhat of an illusion. They’ve always been hard and much harder to achieve than OTB norms which received a watering down of requirements of decades ago. In fact, ICCF norms are so much harder than FIDE norms that one actually needs to achieve two norms to receive the prerequisite title in ICCF vs the standard three norms required by FIDE. In the US, for example, there are 116 ICCF Titled players in history (13 GMs, 25 SIM, 78 IMs) vs 828 FIDE Titled players in present (101 GMs 166 IM 561 FMs) [https://ratings.fide.com/topfed.phtml]. Now however, there is a proposal, for the ICCF GM Title only, proposed by Dennis Doren, ICCF Rules Commissioner who really does a lot for correspondence chess, and SIM Uwe Staroske, ICCF Qualifications and Ratings Commissioner, to remove the requirement to have to play GMs to get the GM Title [leaving IM and SIM untouched] [https://www.iccf.com/Proposal.aspx?id=1280]. This proposal states, “A search of the ICCF data indicates that 21 players obtained at least 2 GM norms across 24 games but failed to get the GM title because of the requirement of "5 GM" opponents. (Only 5 of those players are currently active).†Leaving aside the fact that this proposal violates the very definition of the GM Title, one must beat the club in order to join it, the proposal further outlines the real problems without addressing them, “The GM Title has already become far harder to earn than it used to be, due to the rating suppression caused by the increase in draws.†Wow, let’s unpack that one line because it is a doozy!
Really, this one line, that is easily overlooked, is two huge problems that correspondence is facing: 1) death by one thousand draw paper cuts and 2) rating deflation. I will argue later that there is a third huge problem but let’s start with the ones acknowledged by ICCF itself. Every correspondence player knows the draw rate is going up. As engines and hardware get stronger, players are able to save positions that in the past would have been lost and we are finding ever easier ways to head straight towards 0.00 as Black. I would love to see a detailed analysis that describes how much harder it has become to win as Black against a decent correspondence player (let’s say someone 2300+). In the last five years, I have beaten three 2300+ players as Black without counting mouseslips (one in 2015, one in 2016 and one any day now in 2020) despite playing extremely aggressive openings like the KID (for the record that’s three Black wins out 103 Black draws or 2.91% Win rate). That may be part of the draw problem, but I have witnessed my own draw rate skyrocket 2014: 82.4% 2015: 86.7% 2016: 90.2% 2017: 90.6% 2018: 91% 2019 is still in progress. Often for these norms, you need to score +2, +3, +4 or +5 despite the fact that +1 usually wins the event… and with the draw rate North of 90% in a 12-13 game event that means you are likely to win 1 game on average… but in many events the entire cross table often sees one to three entire wins (look at a recently completed tournament here where I scored my first IM norm that required +0 and I scored +1). My win was one of five wins in the entire tournament 100/105 = 95.2% draw rate! [https://www.iccf.com/event?id=73482]. People love to tell me that’s fine because we are talking about such a weak event as Category 8 [2449 was the rating average]. Fine, I do not accept your argument but let’s look at the World Championship then shall we? Let’s look at the most recently concluded World Championship 30 which finished on 10/2/2019, Category 13 [2562 was the rating average]. This event was won by the new World Champion SIM Kochemasov, Andrey Leonidovich 2540 [https://www.iccf.com/event?id=66745]. Congrats to the new World Champion on his two wins! The event had 8 decisive games out 136 or a draw rate of 91.2% (not far off my own). But wait did I say SIM? I did. In fact, congratulations to the World Champion on scoring his final GM norm as well! This World Championship saw 5 SIMs compete in a field with 12 GMs. While 3 of the SIMs finished 1st 2nd and 3rd, only our new World Champion scored a GM norm. The problem is with all the draws that norms are not just becoming hard, but maintaining or increasing one’s rating is becoming hard. And one’s rating is how one receives any decent invites to have a chance at a norm in the first place.
The draws are a death by one thousand cuts as I recently played one of the ICCF’s proposal’s outlined “21 players that could have obtained a GM norm.†My rating is 2389 and his rating is 2504 (although SIM, he is recognized by all his peers as a GM caliber player). As Black, I obtained an easy draw without ever being in any trouble at all. The player had a rather angry initial discussion with me post mortem about how he felt it was wrong that a 2504 should have to play a player as weak as 2389 where the draw would kill his rating. He felt that his rating was being destroyed by these draws with weaker players and that ICCF should protect him from us. He felt I have it easier as a lower rated player because I can gain rating from these draws. Let’s look at his argument that one is causing the other and it is only happening to those 2500+. At the time that draw occurred, I gained exactly 1.17915 rating points from it (and he lost the same); however, this was the first draw in over 40 games in which I *gained* rating points (this statement is no longer true as a few higher rated players have since given me draws but at the time of the game’s conclusion this was the case). Yes, that’s right, ICCF already does such a good job of protecting higher rated players that it actively hands out advice to new players to be very particular about what invites and events they play because the draws could kill their initial rating. I too have experienced a net negative loss of rating points from draws and still seen my rating going up only due to the fact that wins are easier and ever so slightly more common to come by at my level. However, it means I am not exempt from the draw problem. It is patently false that this problem is limited to those 2500+ as in my last 43 draws, I lost rating in 42 of them and gained rating from 1 of them. Therefore, it appears draws are causing rating deflation and this is the real problem in both norms and correspondence in general. With the exception of matches, perhaps there is a way to have draws not count against one’s rating since there are so many of them? It kind of blends the Chess rating concept with that of Bridge where one cannot lose rating points once earned. What we can see is that the player’s argument that draws are causing rating deflation is probably true. One problem is at least partly causing the other one.
There is a third more devious problem worse than the two outlined above in my opinion. While rating deflation, draws, less players and norms are real issues… they are dwarfed by the change in behavior caused by these issues. I know it is a bit overdramatic to talk about such issues in a time of COVID, but there has been a great increase in the number of players playing Dead Man Defense (often shortened by correspondence players to DMD+ and DMD=). It is important to note that the death rate in COVID for those in the elderly category is markedly higher and the correspondence community in general is also markedly higher. I have heard estimates of the average age of correspondence player being 70-75 range though I haven’t seen any data. Back to DMD, what is DMD and why is it such awful behavior? The players are hoping you die before you win so they can claim either a win on time or if it goes to adjudication then at least claim a draw. The other hope is that you might mouse slip by being forced to play more moves which while that would never happen over the board does surprisingly account for a large portion of wins in ICCF correspondence high-level play. One of the main problems this issue causes is that if someone takes an early draw against a player who then goes on to die, the entire rest of the field gets a free half point and you are punished for playing your game quicker than your peers. Often, players over the board resign once mate is unstoppable or a simple endgame is reached in which the result is known to players of all levels. In correspondence, often even sooner than these players will resign or offer draws, knowing that perpetual check is unavoidable should we play another 10 moves past the piece sac against a bare king? How about when the engine reads +25 +30 or +40? So, for the most, correspondence players draw or resign much earlier than one might over the board due to engine and tablebase assistance. On that note, depending on the tournament, players can outright claim wins and draws either on the 6-piece tablebase (always allowed) or the sometimes allowed on an event by event basis the 7-piece tablebase. It is considered out right rude to make a player play all the way to the 6-piece tablebase to claim. I recently claimed one win in a six piece tablebase up an entire piece where my jolly opponent wanted to discuss the game in a post mortem (rarely done in correspondence in general anyways). I declined to even respond to him even though I was already having a very lively and fun post mortem with a Venezuelan on our extremely interesting draw. A worse example is the 92 move game I played with opposite colored bishops where I had two extra pawns. I offered a draw as white and the higher rated player to my lower rated opponent who declined it, forcing me to play to a 7-piece tablebase claim to end the game. This kind of behavior used to be quite rare. In the past, I would say it happened in 1 out of every 100 games… these days it seems to happen in every other game (1/2!). I have seven different opponents right now that are DMD+ against me where the engine reads +148 (or in some cases even sees mate! The 2504 player that complained about my rating earlier also complained someone was DMD+ him… I remarked that I have no less than 7 players DMD+ me and if they would resign? My rating would be about 2450 right which sort of eliminates his claim about our “giant†rating difference). The issue is that due to rating deflation these players need to artificially keep their rating high as long as they can because that’s how they will get their next invite. With the new terrible time control that is not yet Official (although there is a proposal to make it Official: https://www.iccf.com/Proposal.aspx?id=1282), players only need to make a move once every 50 days to pointlessly extend the game. I have a DMD= draw currently going on 16 months now where the player is just moving Kg1 Kf1 Kg1 every 50 days. This time control exasperates the DMD problem. When I contacted ICCF Officials to point out the severity of this problem, I was told that I should report it to the TD on a case by case basis only if it is DMD+ as they will not look at DMD= at all. However, it is usually the TDs that are the biggest offenders (6 of the 7 players described above were TDs). In fact, it is usually the same general casts of characters which allows for an easy black list to be created that bars these players from play until they can fix their atrocious behavior. This behavior needs to be punished. These players need to be reprimanded. In the end, lack of norms, rating deflation and the draw death will not make me quit correspondence chess. It is DMD+/DMD= that will make me quit. This experience is my personal experience with high level correspondence over thirteen years and I would love to hear from other correspondence players concerning these problems.
Vadrya Pokshtya (2022-02-17 08:52:23)
Grand Dice Chess
Hello,
I am the author and inventor of chess variants. My chess variants are published on chessvariants.com and some of them can be played on Game Courier.
I would like to present to you a variant of chess with dice that I invented relatively recently and which can already be played on two sites on the Internet.
Grand Dice Chess
The Rules
The game uses a 12x12 board.
Each player has:
4 Kings
24 Pawns
8 Knights
8 Bishops
8 Rooks
4 Queens
White and black occupy the 1st-6th and 7th-12th ranks, respectively, as shown in the diagram.
Unfortunately I can't post an image here, but you can always find it here:
https://granddicechess.blogspot.com/2022/01/grand-dice-chess.html
https://www.chess.com/blog/Pokshtya/grand-dice-chess-battle
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-variants/grand-dice-chess
White starts the game first.
The game uses four dice.
Opponents make moves alternately, throwing 4 dice. The piece to move is determined by a die:
1 = pawn, 2 = knight, 3 = bishop, 4 = rook, 5 = queen and 6 = king.
The player makes four moves at the same time based on the indications of the dice and has the right to refuse (pass) any move that does not suit him, unless it is a pawn move. Unlike in regular dice chess it's allowable to pass moves. And this rule was already applied about a thousand years ago in old variant of Shatranj (Shatranj al-Mustatîla or Oblong Chess), the Arabic pre-decessor of modern chess. However it's not allowed to pass on pawn-moves, except when they are blocked.
Chess pieces move across the board as they do in ordinary chess - according to the standard rules of move and capture.
The only minor exception is for a pawn that is not allowed to move forward two squares from its starting position.
Upon reaching the last rank, the pawn can be promoted to any piece except the king and itself.
There is no castling, check and checkmate in the game.
The goal of the game is to capture four enemy kings.
The first test tournament was held on the site http://abstractgames.ru/index.php
The tournament is attended by 10 people and I received the most positive feedback from them.
The game has proven itself so well that regular tournaments have already been launched.
Yesterday the game was added to Dagaz server https://games.dtco.ru/map
And it's a great place to test the game in person, as registering on the site is very easy and doesn't require any personal information.
The game turned out to be extremely interesting and exciting, replete with puzzling combinations. Surprisingly, with this size of the board and the number of pieces, the average game lasts no more than 30 turns.
Thibault de Vassal (2021-04-15 14:48:06)
Wch 22 Stage 2 ended
There is no full calendar indeed but that is a mistake... for now, there is a line "Schedule" in My messages that displays when the next WCH & CUP will start, but I could add the same for next rounds if we decide that all next rounds should start with new cycles. A start at 1st of the next month may be not so easy to manage according to the cases.
Garvin Gray (2021-05-04 12:14:16)
Wch 22 Stage 2 ended
I decided to leave this discussion for a while for two reasons. 1) I genuinely believed that whatever would be agreed to in this discussions would be unwound at a later date and
2) That my involvement in the discussions was not a helpful factor for others to become involved in the discussions
I will now explain what issues made me go public with my frustrations with this site and with the site owner in particular.
Over a long period of time, I had a to beg, plead and convince that the FICGS World Cup was an event that would be supported, despite Thibault's regular protests to the contrary.
Once the event and the format was finally decided to 'give it a go', the numbers was huge for this site and the general format had two primary goals:
1) No preferential treatment for high rated players. Everyone started from round one and the groups for round one would be divided up to make sure that each group would be of roughly equal strength
2) In previous discussions with the WCH, I had regularly protested that when there were groups of 5, that these groups should be double round robin, ensuring that all players got eight games and that colour allocation for the top two seeds would not play a role in the final results.
Then the latest groupings for the World Cup were released and everything that had been previously agreed had been violated:
1) Groups of 5 were used and all groups were only single round robin (breaking of a previous agreement)
2) The entire purpose of the World Cup was to have large first round groups and a small number of groups, ensuring that only about 9 or so players made it through to the final round. As it stands now, about 19 players will make it to the final round. The entire format has been advertised as a two round event. Therefore, there can not be a third stage. This is a clear condition of entry and it can not be violated. (breaking of another previous agreement).
I can go on and on, but I think this is sufficient as to highlight why I come to the conclusion that the site owner has no issue at all with breaking previous agreements.
I busted my ass for a number of years to convince everyone that the World Cup was a good event worth supporting. And when it was first run, it was well supported.
To now see it so corrupted makes me just think, why bother. Another deal broken. Time to move on from this site.
Thibault de Vassal (2021-05-07 01:34:51)
Wch 22 Stage 2 ended
I understand your frustration Garvin, thanks for explaining your views once again and I'll try to answer each point (even if you do not answer anymore):
a) You were right on the Cup format Garvin, obviously. Probably on (many) other ideas... I just can't say.
b) I always thought & said that stable rules were important in many ways (that I explained), which is frustrating, I understand that.
c) As far as I remember, I added the possibility of double round-robin for 5-players groups after that discussion but indeed it was (probably) never used. Maybe the rule should be changed to "always double-robin for 5-players groups", that would be easy to do. A fact is that it is difficult to gather more than 3 or 4 opinions in this forum these times :/ By the way, if anyone can find this discussion where I agreeded something else than a possibility, then (my bad) I'll change it immediately.
d) I do think that a multi-stages tournament should have a pre-determined number of stages... (players should know what kind of engagement it represents) Maybe I just missed that point and a rule specifying that stage 1 groups will be built so that x to y players (no less, no more) will play round 2 could be added. Why not.
Garvin Gray (2021-05-10 11:44:13)
Wch 22 Stage 2 ended
Groups with less than 7 players: https://ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=13002
FICGS__CHESS__CUP_CHAMPIONSHIP__000004
FICGS chess cup championship is a 2 stages round-robin tournament.
My wording: The two stage tournament is the basic design of the event and is hard wired into the event. The whole event was designed to be a two stage event, with large groups in the first stage, to ensure that the first round groups are competitive and also that no players received byes through to a second round based on rating.
I had to plead for years for this format and garner support from other players before you would agree to even run it as a trial in it's first year. And then in its first year, it received over 100 entries, a lot of top players entered and was a complete success.
So, I believe I have every right to be pissed off at you directly that it really does seem like you are attempting to unwind the format of this event.
The format is clearly described in the published rules, so for the site owner to so flagrantly ignore them can only be described as one of two actions:
1) Negligent
2) Deliberant
Thibault de Vassal (2021-05-17 23:24:20)
Wch 22 Stage 2 ended
Garvin, that thread (13002) was about FICGS Wch, not FICGS Cup... I added the possibility only of double round robin in Wch because I was not sure it was necessary in every stages (obviously it finds more sense in a round robin final than in stage 1), but anyway I could make it more accurate.
But indeed I just saw it was specified in FICGS Cup rules: "There will be double round-robin tournaments in case of groups of less than 7 players." ... fact is I can't remember when it was added but I guess I could have forgotten to apply it. Usually I read the rules again & again while making pairings, so I may have been negligent here. My apologies to all participants...
Thanks Garvin for pointing it out.
I'll come back on changes soon, it is a pity not to be able to gather more opinions so I'll have to make a move anyway.
Garvin Gray (2021-06-13 11:22:28)
Wch 22 Stage 2 ended
Now that my ficgs cup group has finished, I feel I can reply without feeling like I am pushing my own barrow.
When I highlighting the issue of when there is a group of 5, I was not intending it to be related to either championship.
This is because, in my view, the issue is the same, regardless of whether the group of view occurs in the WCH, the ficgs cup or a general group game.
I am aware that some people probably have read my replies as being rather strong on this topic, and in some cases, unhelpful, but if you look at it from the viewpoint of having engaged in genuine dialogue, exchanged viewpoints, debated back and forth, and gone over many topics again and again and finally after all that time, have gotten in writing and published rules that changes will be made, and then as soon as the situations come up again, the old rules are enforced again and nothing changes, then it becomes quite a bit more understandable why a negative tone and suspicion is underlaid in the discussions.
And as for why not walk away?
Had I been told that the entire format for the FICGS cup was going to be disbanded, that groups of 5 were going to be used and only single round robin was going to be used and three or four stages were going to be used, then YES, I probably would not have entered, and I would have made my feelings known as to why I was not entering.
And, I would have been looking to not enter any further World Championships as well. I have a Round Robin group coming up, as well as a Stage 2. These I will complete and do my best to advance, but if the old rules are maintained, then I will not be entering any future cycles.
Thibault de Vassal (2021-07-04 13:31:17)
Next Ficgs World Championship Tournament
In the other discussion I specified: "Garvin, that thread (13002) was about FICGS Wch, not FICGS Cup... I added the possibility only of double round robin in Wch because I was not sure it was necessary in every stages (obviously it finds more sense in a round robin final than in stage 1), but anyway I could make it more accurate."
So, in all ways, it sounds like I didn't specify that all 5 players groups in WCH should be double round robin.
Thibault de Vassal (2021-09-20 02:16:26)
Chess Cup final #4
The 4th FICGS chess cup just started with 28 players... that is much more than the previous ones, and too many players most probably, but it should not happen again as 5 players groups will be double round robin from now (decreasing chances to see 4 or 5 players obtaining the same score).
Good luck everyone!
Garvin Gray (2021-09-20 02:29:39)
Chess Cup final #4
As I already mentioned. To avoid this in the future, all that is required is that the initial groups need to be larger.
12 groups of 9 players etc avoids this issue entirely.
Garvin Gray (2021-09-20 02:31:27)
Chess Cup final #4
One issue I am running into.
I am trying to download the pgn file.
Normally I download the 'my game' file to my desktop, then change the name, so it shows .pgn at the end, and then I can copy the games across to my database.
But for this tournament, I do not seem to be able to do this at this stage.
Thibault de Vassal (2021-09-20 02:36:19)
Chess Cup final #4
Yes, of course larger groups will be better that way, I agree.
About the download, it seems to work on the tournament page & game page, could you tell me where you download it from?
Garvin Gray (2021-09-20 03:09:17)
Chess Cup final #4
Solved the download games issue. I normally download the games from 'download my games' and right click save link as - to my desktop and then change the file name, so it ends with .pgn.
That changes the file to a pgn file. Then I copy the games across to the database.
This time, in the same location, I tried saving, all games, and it saved all games, then I filtered just my games, then I copied my games across to my database.
Garvin Gray (2021-09-24 19:07:03)
Chess Cup final #4
So, in review of what occurred from the preliminary stage, where there 15 groups of 5 players, making 75 players in total?
Is that correct?
Thibault de Vassal (2021-09-27 23:37:32)
Chess Cup final #4
It looks like correct, yes.
Juri Eintalu (2022-03-21 21:28:38)
FICGS support to Ukraine
I am also against wars, particularly against unjustified wars, and absolutely against war crimes.
Concerning the Ukraine war, I have noticed that the sports regulators, including chess regulators, are inconsistent.
When did they protest against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, sanctioned the sportsmen from the occupying countries?
I suggest punishing those who explicitly approve the war crimes or make hate speeches.
Juri Eintalu (2022-03-22 22:02:44)
FICGS support to Ukraine
What happens today is a greater conflict than occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan only because some great forces are vehemently supporting the invaded Ukraine.
Thibault de Vassal (2022-05-11 01:02:59)
Carlos Alcaraz y el ajedrez :)
The recent winner of Rio, Barcelona & Madrid Open 2022 talks about his incredible performances at tennis, and how blitz chess helps him...
(spanish language)
https://www.marca.com/tenis/2022/03/07/6225c2c6e2704ed95f8b45cc.html
"P. Uno de los aspectos más desconocidos en usted es que le gusta hacer siesta y el ajedrez antes de los partidos. ¿Me lo puede explicar?
R. Asà es. Me pillaron con la cámara en el Next Gen de Milán y en RÃo también dormÃa porque el descanso es importante y más en una semana tan intensa en la que llovió y se retrasaron los partidos. La recuperación era clave y las siestas antes de los partidos para mà lo son. Y el ajedrez me ayuda porque estás concentrado, la cabeza te funciona...
P. ¿En qué le ayuda concretamente el ajedrez para la práctica del tenis?
R. Me ayuda a estar más rápido mentalmente, a observar jugadas, a ver el movimiento que quieres hacer, la estrategia... A estar concentrado todo el tiempo. En el ajedrez, como el tenis, te despistas un momento y ya se revuelve la partida. En este aspecto son dos disciplinas bastante parecidas."
Misha Allport (2022-08-26 18:06:00)
2022 Chess Cup-Group Leader(s)
In the current 2022 CC, one group has finished 12 games. No leader(s) are shown. Why?
Thibault de Vassal (2022-08-27 02:10:07)
2022 Chess Cup-Group Leader(s)
Hello Misha. The algorithm shows "No leader" when there are at least 3 leaders (if I remember well)... This is just a way not to display too many names when it is the case.
Thibault de Vassal (2022-08-29 00:48:35)
2022 Chess Cup-Group Leader(s)
Oh... also, group leaders are updated about every 2 months (next update around September 1st)
Garvin Gray (2022-09-08 13:06:21)
2022 Chess Cup-Group Leader(s)
Would it be possible to have the group leaders setting updated every week or so? I think that setting would be more beneficial.
Thibault de Vassal (2022-09-10 15:03:42)
2022 Chess Cup-Group Leader(s)
Indeed, that would be more real time, but I always prefered to start the process by myself to make sure that everything goes ok & to see if there is any anomaly in the results.
Anyway, I could start it more often at least.
Misha Allport (2022-09-26 23:52:00)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
How many players from each group in the 1st stage qualify for the next phase?
Thibault de Vassal (2022-09-27 00:01:21)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
Hello Misha.
It depends on the results in each tournament. Rules can be found on the waiting list page.
Gregory Kohut (2022-11-22 22:30:44)
World Cup
Who do you think will win the World Cup?
Thibault de Vassal (2022-11-24 21:35:37)
World Cup
You probably mean Soccer / Football world cup? :)
I'll go for France ^^
Thibault de Vassal (2023-01-02 03:19:59)
World Cup
I was almost ok on this one... but penalties was against my guess. Congrats Argentina!
John Liang (2023-02-21 14:56:23)
World Cup
Amazing games!
Garvin Gray (2023-03-21 00:47:12)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
All 5th Ficgs Cup 1st Stage games are now complete. We can now progress onto the Final Stage.
Thibault de Vassal (2023-03-21 04:49:08)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
Finally... I was waiting for the last game ending :) It should start today. It will be a (very) big tournament.
Juri Eintalu (2023-11-16 23:40:31)
A Public Appeal to Chess Organisations
Herbert Kruse:
"you ignore, who is victim and who startet it"
I do not ignore anything, but it is you who ignores everything relevant:
1) You ignore the text of my Public Appeal and the arguments presented there, and I have already said that above.
2) You ignore the definitions of "war crime" and "genocide". Above, I have even inserted some links to international conventions.
3) You ignore my replies. Above, I just explained to you that war crime is a war crime, and genocide is a genocide independently of the previous history. Who started the war or whether the opponent committed some war crimes earlier is irrelevant.
4) You also ignore the history. The Israel/Palestine wars started already in 1948. On 09 April 1948, one radical Zionist group committed a massacre of Palestinians in the village of Deir Yassin.
5) You also ignore the documents concerning the current background. In the United Nations documentation, it is stated that the Gaza Strip is a territory occupied by Israel. There are other such territories. The UN documentation uses the phrase "Israel and occupied Palestinian territories".
"inhumnan war crimes by Hamas caused this"
It is more precise to say that Hamas's attack PROVOKED Israel's reaction.
"Hamas strategy is to hide after civiliens, thats so obvious and you fall for it"
I cannot speak with someone who arbitrarily ascribes to me some thoughts or attitudes I do not have.
The use of human shields by Hamas in no way justifies Israel's current massacres in the Gaza Strip.
Your argument is based on not knowing what is and what is not a war crime and what exactly is written in, e.g., the Genova Convention. It is also based on ignoring the text of my Public Appeal.
I cannot continue the discussion with you because you violate the most basic principles of meaningful discussion.
Juri Eintalu (2023-11-18 03:24:26)
A Public Appeal to Chess Organisations
to Thibault de Vassal:
It is beside the point whether the Russell Tribunal on Palestine was biased or not.
What is essential is that you have said nothing about the facts and statistic presented by that tribunal.
You are talking about the apartheid. But you ignore the context in which I mentioned the Russell Tribunal on Palestine. I was talking about that tribunal because it presented facts, that already in 2014, Israel's actions concerning the Gaza Strip were very close to genocide.
Thus, your remarks concerning the Russell Tribunal on Palestine are beside the point and avoiding the theme.
Moreover, independently of any Russel tribunals, it is evident and clear that there is an apartheid regime in Israel and occupied Palestine territories.
First of all, the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are surrounded by a high wall with barbered wire.
Juri Eintalu (2023-11-19 00:58:48)
A Public Appeal to Chess Organisations
ARGUMENTS CONCERNING THE RUSSIA/UKRAINE WAR
None of the commentators explained why it was necessary and reasonable to politicise sports and to impose sanctions on Russia and Belarus. No one answered my corresponding arguments from my Public Appeal. No one explained why the sanctions were imposed on Russia for the invasion of Ukraine, while no sanctions were imposed on the US for the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.
HERBERT KRUSE PRESENTED THE FOLLOWING "ARGUMENT":
"like Ukraine Israel had its "Butcha" at the music festival, so who attacked?
and there were constant rockets on Israel from Gaza, should they just allow it?
and the hostiges should just given up?
if my state can not defend me, maybe u can help?!"
This emotional and psychological manipulation completely ignored all my relevant arguments and explanations.
Now, let us take only the first phrase of this mumbo-jumbo:
"like Ukraine Israel had its 'Butcha' at the music festival, so who attacked?"
My Public Appeal was about chess sanctions. Now, the data are as follows:
2022, February 24:
Russia started its invasion of Ukraine
2022, February 27:
An extraordinary meeting of the FIDE Council was held on the current situation and the urgent measures to be taken after the military action launched by Russia in Ukraine.
https://fide.com/news/1603
Thus, it seems that they waited for the beginning of the Russian invasion and had a plan for how to react, as they responded only a few days later.
Israel had occupied Palestinian territories for 55 years, but the chess federation FIDE had never reacted.
2022, March 16:
Russia and Belarus teams suspended from FIDE competitions.
https://fide.com/news/1638
2022, March 30:
Russian troops leave Bucha (near Kyiv).
2022, April 01:
The corpses in Bucha were discovered.
Now, the first obvious problem with Herbert Kruse's "argument" is that the timeline proves that the chess sanctions on Russia were imposed BEFORE the corpses in Bucha were discovered.
The second problem is that he does not know or pretends not to know the definitions of such terms as "war crime".
The third problem is that, as a matter of fact, we do NOT know WHEN these people were executed, and we do NOT know WHO executed them.
It is so because there were actually TWO massacres in Bucha.
The shelling killed some people, "The Guardian" reported. These people were lying on the streets. The satellite images proved that they were killed before the Russian Army left the town.
However, some people were executed in the cellars. Unfortunately, the satellite images cannot prove the time of the executions in the cellars.
There is one additional problem. Ukraine has not made public the names and personal data of the victims. Therefore, we do not even know what percentage of the victims were Ukrainians and what percentage were Russians.
THIBAULT THE VASSAL PRESENTED THE FOLLOWING SEQUENCE OF ARGUMENTS:
"Ukraine is attacked mainly because Poutine (at least) argues it historically belongs to Russia with no consideration of its recent history & international treaties (and among other reasons because he obviously sees nazis in every people open on what a man/woman/family could look like, meaning many europeans & americans)."
Thibault has no evidence whatsoever for one's claim that Putin "obviously sees nazis in every people open on what a man/woman/family could look like, meaning many europeans & americans)." There is even no evidence to the claim that the Russian administration thinks that the majority of Ukrainians were Nazis. The evidence might be the public speeches of Russian leaders. But I have seen no such speech with such theses. Indeed, Putin has said something else.
I believe that Thibault presents one's prejudices as "obvious facts".
Besides, it has nothing to do with the arguments of my Public Appeal.
"There are few doubts that war crimes have been committed there."
In the Ukraine/Russia war, BOTH sides have committed a lot of war crimes, and it is well documented and proven.
However, the chess sanctions on Russia were not imposed because of the war crimes, as can be seen from the schedule above. The motivation to impose those sanctions was, initially, merely the fact that Russia started a war (not a war crime but a crime against peace).
Moreover, in the Ukraine/Donbas domestic war too, both sides committed war crimes. Ukraine committed crimes against humanity, and there were clear genocidal elements of the behaviour towards the Russian-speaking minority of Ukraine. It is also well-documented and proven. At the beginning of my Public Appeal, I mentioned that Karyakin argued from the premise that Ukrainian ultra-nationalists murdered a lot of Russians in Ukraine.
However, I see that the responses to my Public Appeal have altogether ignored all my arguments, and everyone has preferred to talk about something else.
Garvin Gray (2024-09-19 18:46:57)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
All Groups from Ficgs Cup 6 have finished. Time to Start the final
Herbert Kruse (2024-09-21 23:41:40)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
Only If you offer draw
Herbert Kruse (2024-09-21 23:42:58)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
I mean, someone, sorry
Garvin Gray (2024-09-22 07:36:21)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
There is still one game going in one group. Not sure why I thought all groups were finished
Herbert Kruse (2024-10-03 17:42:11)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
now we have to wait, or TD makes a call ...
Garvin Gray (2024-10-04 00:19:15)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
Group 2's final game has finished in stalemate and Thibault has to now declare the game drawn by the laws of chess.
And then we can get on with the final
Herbert Kruse (2024-10-04 07:12:28)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
The worst part is, that White cannot offer a draw, because he hast No move.
With only Kings ON Board you can move and offer it ;)
Garvin Gray (2024-10-04 12:03:02)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
It is genuinely unfortunate that Thibault refuses to update the rules on this playing forum to allow for immediate 7 man claims.
As has been seen here, the final of the Ficgs 6th cup has been delayed by weeks because of this decision.
This can hardly be cause for attracting or keeping players over the long term.
Herbert Kruse (2024-10-04 12:56:42)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
weeks? play poker then it is years or death ;)
Garvin Gray (2024-10-04 16:27:17)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
Result is showing as a draw. Now we await the start of the final
Thibault de Vassal (2024-10-06 00:09:38)
Chess Cup-1st Stage
Sometimes some players want to play the until the very end in quite obvious positions... not exactly a dead man defense (it could last much longer and I would intervene in such case) so I prefer not to adjudicate it.
Finally, the chess cup final stage just started.
[Chess forum]
[Rating lists]
[Countries]
[Chess openings]
[Legal informations]
[Contact]
[Social network] [Hot news] [Discussions] [Seo forums] [Meet people] [Directory]
[Social network] [Hot news] [Discussions] [Seo forums] [Meet people] [Directory]
Social network : create your photo albums, discuss with your friends...
Hot news & buzz : discover the latest news and buzz on the internet...
Discussions : questions and answers, forums on almost everything...
Seo forums : search engines optimisation forums, web directory...
Play the strongest international correspondence chess players !
|
Simal Moreira, Leonardo (BRA) [member # 10062] Correspondence chess : 2374 Ranked # 107 in the rating list. Rating history : 2326 2361 2358 2360 2374 2374 2374 This member has no profile in the social network. |
| | Correspondence chess World championship Play chess games Go (weiqi, baduk) Advanced chess Play big chess Chess trainer apk Rated tournaments Poker texas hold'em Fischer random chess |  |