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Glen D. Shields (2006-04-25 16:48:28)
Another Opinion
I have mixed feelings on 'conditional" moves. I agree they save time, but they also can be irritating. Depends how they're sent and who sends them.
We all have those opponents who play whatever Fritz plays. When one gets in a rather simple series of moves, those opponents like to run out a string of 3 or 4 conditionals in a row. Opponents like that are like leeches. You can't get them off your skin without yanking them off and eradicating them :)
Time saving versus irritation. Considering the options, I vote for time saving. The faster I can get rid of Fritz opponents, the happier I am.
Just another opinion :)
Glen D. Shields (2006-04-25 20:39:39)
Hmmm ... yup
Graham - I think you summed it perfectly. I have no objection to conditionals nor do I care how much time folks use. What I find "irritating" (the word used in this thread) are those situations where you move and ten minutes later you're back on the clock again. Overused conditionals contribute to the "irritation," but hardly are the root cause.
Hannes Rada (2007-09-09 21:26:43)
board diagrams + conditionals
Not for the imput of my own moves. For scrolling down through whole tournaments it is in my opinion more logic to see first the notation and then the current position on the diagram. I think it is quite hard or difficult to implement conditional moves. The ICCF-Webserver has this feature, but it is disabled. We had a perfect solution on the chessfriend server (silent conditional moves - great for saving reflection time and to speed up to game). Somte openings like the Grunfeld or the Sveshnikov are 'pefect' for conditionals :-)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-09 21:43:59)
board diagrams + conditionals
I understand that some openings are quite "boring" to play :) .. and I saw conditional moves on Chessfriend server. Why is it disabled at ICCF server ?
Conditional moves is a quite difficult feature to implement, that's true (even more with several games). Also there are many ways to imagine it ! .. But the main question is "would it be fair" ?
Hannes Rada (2007-09-09 23:00:48)
unfair ?
Why should conditionals be unfair ? I've no idea why the ICCF guys disabled it. But I know that ICCF is a very bureaucratic organisation and even the smallest change on their server takes a very long time and will be discussed to death ....
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-09 23:47:20)
unfair
:) .. I saw that in ICCF forum / TCCMB.. But that's interesting anyway.
Conditionals may be unfair because ie. it will be easier for one player to use it in some lines.. anyway this will be discussed to death also :)
Gino Figlio (2007-12-17 19:53:21)
MPT
Hi Glen,
There is one type of ICCF tournament where conditionals are officially allowed, the money prize tournaments (MPT). Their time control is 10/30 and it was found reasonable to activate conditionals in order to allow players save some time.
Best regards,
Gino
Hannes Rada (2007-12-20 23:27:22)
Unfair ?
Thibault, Why do you think conditionals are unfair ? There are some openings which are perferct for conditional moves. For example Grunfeld. On chessfriend I offered my opponent the first 10 or 12 moves as conditionals. And the game really started on the first day with an interesting middle game position (avoiding to enter the boring and well known opening moves step by step).
Gino Figlio (2007-12-21 19:27:23)
conditionals
Hi Thibault,
I would like to comment on this issue.
While it is true that only one side benefits from a one-move conditional, the other side needs only to add his own conditional string to benefit himself from saving time.
Best regards,
Gino
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-21 20:42:31)
conditionals
Hi Gino,
So it's up to the other player, who's almost forced to use conditional moves to save time also. But there are forced lines where only one player has "no choice", that's what I meant. Well, conditional moves could be implemented in many ways, with several lines, a complete tree and so on...
Wolfgang Utesch (2007-12-22 07:28:28)
conditionals
Thibault, I don't think that time saving is the most important reason to wish conditionals but to minimize the workload of clear moves!
Wolfgang Utesch (2007-12-23 16:25:30)
conditionals
What I meant with workload is useless and boring work which is unnecessary!
Andrew Stephenson (2007-12-26 20:08:02)
conditionals
They are a good idea I think the truth of many cc games is decided in a perimeter of a few moves and Wolfgang is right so much boring and unecessary work is involved in getting to those critical points. After 1 or 2 moves with conditionals you could have gone straight to the draw in some of your games Thibault!! Just joking! Please articulate your opposition to the concept a little more.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-27 02:46:21)
conditionals
Of course that's the main & clearest argument and I agree with that. I'll try to search TCCMB archives (I think this issue has been discussed for a while there) to argue better my 'feelings' by experience on other servers. Anyway there are so many improvements to come on the server before that I couldn't implement it before a while :/ .. To be continued.
Garvin Gray (2008-01-07 18:21:04)
conditional move tournament
Can we have a conditional move non rated tournament to test out the differences as I have never played on a server with conditionals?
Might give some of us more idea of whether to be in favour of it or not.
Marc Lacrosse (2008-06-17 07:55:59)
Conditionals ?
I know that this has been discussed before...
But I still feel that possible use of conditional moves would be a nice improvement here.
Nothing mandatory : simply the possibility to tell your opponent : "If you play this move my answer is that one". I cannot see how it could hurt in any way but I feel that it may help soften (and fasten) the play in situations like forced suites, exchanges and so on.
Your opinion ?
Marc
Andrew Stephenson (2008-06-17 09:43:26)
Conditionals
Yes good idea. IMO no need to trial it though could be limited to rapid tournament where time saving is perhaps more important
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