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Game result (chess) B. Ozen, 2269 N. Wilson, 2121 1/2-1/2 See game 152323 |
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Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-08 13:10:47)
Things to be implemented...
Hello to all... and thank you for your confidence in this very new server (when no game started yet ! maybe today...)
I expected a high average rating, but not so much :)
The last update provoked the first bug -> in this forum. Sorry to all who tried to post here. It should work now.
Here are things to be implemented in the future :
- Vacations (until, time limit by move is 2 months)
- Conditional moves
- A better interface for the forum...
Don't hesitate if you have ideas to improve the website !
Best wishes.
Marc Lacrosse (2006-04-22 15:39:05)
Conditional moves ?
I cannot figure how to propose conditional moves. Is this feature implemented yet?
Maybe I did not read the rules accurately...
Marc
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-23 06:12:25)
Not yet
Conditional moves will be probably implemented, but not this week... Many things to do before.
I think it's generally an appreciated feature. Some players don't like to receive "automatic" moves just after they played, but it seems to be a "must" have for CC servers.
Stefano Ghisi (2006-04-23 16:36:50)
conditional moves?
I think it's a feature important. Then, if you want to use it, you use...
Graham Wyborn (2006-04-25 13:13:52)
Condition Moves?
I have played on another site which uses conditional moves. The Conditional Move is only operated after you opponent moves, therefore you are unaware of your opponents offer. Also players can turn the feature on or off. So if one player has it turned off, the opponent cannot use it. Conditional moves are good time savers. especially when making a capture and the opponent has only one good reply. It saves time. Hope Conditional Moves are coming to this site too!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-25 16:09:45)
So, no need to turn it off... !?
That's not obvious... Conditional moves may save time, may irritate too... Is it really "fair" ? His existence is arguable, in my opinion.
Graham Cridland (2006-04-25 16:31:57)
?
You can't do anything with conditional moves you can't do just making the moves yourself. It isn't like it makes imitation harder to spot. It just saves time.
Graham Cridland (2006-04-25 17:22:16)
Hmm.
Well, I see your point (I have an opponent like that) but what you're really objecting to is their failure to use their time, not conditional moves (or even fritz). And I can't imagine that forcing people to use their time will be popular. Just have to NOT send the move back right away, sit down at the board, and figure out where Fritz goes wrong. Our German friend isn't all knowing (especially at the 14-16 ply people only give him much of the time). So you should generally win those games.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-08-24 13:31:19)
Premove (conditional moves)
Hi Benjamin.
Conditional moves was one of the first features expected and discussed here... I'm still not sure it is a good idea. Of course it may save time in forced sequences, but there are some controversial issues (see previous discussions with Glen about chess servers) about time and holidays. Anyway, the truth is it's a major change, and I've too many things to do right now :/
Dinesh De Silva (2006-08-24 14:01:52)
Re: Premove (conditional moves).....
I think such issues as CONDITIONAL MOVES & VACATION TIME ALLOWED are sure to be debated in the future too. Some sites allow conditional moves , some don't. Some sites allow vacation time of 30 or 30+ days per year per tournament (and sometimes even special leave), some sites don't. These issues are sure to be hotly debated for a long time.
Sandor Marton-Bardocz (2007-01-16 18:29:21)
Conditional Move
Hi there! I noticed that there was a topic regarding conditional moves but it is closed. I think that conditional moves, aren't a bad thing after all..it should be implemented..Just think about the first moves of a game....for now, even the weakest players play theory ( fritz database or something)and this implies that the first moves will be played rather fast...Then why spend time clicking around to get to the games on a starting tournament over&over again, just to play the well known moves? U can overcome the "irritation" issue by limitating the use of conditional moves. Let's say every player has the right to use for example ...10 conditional moves in the begining of the game (in the first 15 moves for example). After that in 10 to 10 moves have let's say 2 possibilities to use conditional moves...This way it's erradicated the annoyance of countless use of premoves. Btw. I think that the example of those players who might use Fritz or whatever chessprogram to play, and then premove the lines indicated by the engine isn't really good..Only if the opponnent against whom they use it ...playes using the same lines indicated by ....an engine :-) Otherwise I can't realise how on earth the replied moves can be the same and matching with....or those lines are really forced..and if that is the case then the use of premoves is normal. Thank You.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-01-17 11:24:53)
Conditional Move
Hello Sandor.
Still I have no time enough to implement this major change :/ .. This question, premove / conditional moves, will be debated again & again anyway.
My best. Thibault
Hannes Rada (2007-09-09 19:03:05)
My wish list
- Conditional moves - drag and drop for the imput of the moves - I would like to see the graphical board diagrams after the chess notation not before
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-09 19:28:27)
Drag and drop
I have to look for a way to implement drag & drop without java. I still have no idea about it... About conditional moves, that's the eternal question. I think I won't implement it, sorry :/
About the graphical interface, why would you like to see it below the chess notation ?! .. Maybe to avoid to scroll down if you write your moves ?
Hannes Rada (2007-09-09 21:26:43)
board diagrams + conditionals
Not for the imput of my own moves. For scrolling down through whole tournaments it is in my opinion more logic to see first the notation and then the current position on the diagram. I think it is quite hard or difficult to implement conditional moves. The ICCF-Webserver has this feature, but it is disabled. We had a perfect solution on the chessfriend server (silent conditional moves - great for saving reflection time and to speed up to game). Somte openings like the Grunfeld or the Sveshnikov are 'pefect' for conditionals :-)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-09 21:43:59)
board diagrams + conditionals
I understand that some openings are quite "boring" to play :) .. and I saw conditional moves on Chessfriend server. Why is it disabled at ICCF server ?
Conditional moves is a quite difficult feature to implement, that's true (even more with several games). Also there are many ways to imagine it ! .. But the main question is "would it be fair" ?
Robert Mueller (2007-12-16 13:57:56)
Conditional Moves
I am sure this must have been discussed in the past, but if I could vote for one improvement on the FICGS server software, it would be conditional moves. After all, it is soon Christmas and the time for big wishes ;)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-16 16:22:18)
Conditional Moves
Indeed, it has :) .. Conditional moves still brings many questions but I'm still opposed to the idea.
Anyway a new wish list is a good idea ! .. The main issue I'm working on these days is money prizes for WCH & freestyle tournaments, but ideas for improvements are always welcome.
Robert Mueller (2007-12-17 05:54:09)
Why are you opposed to the idea?
Now I am puzzled. I thought there were no conditional moves on this server because it is a technical issue. Why would you be opposed to the idea? It is pretty much standard in correspondence chess, even on servers.
Glen D. Shields (2007-12-17 14:51:16)
Conditional Moves ICCF Server
Conditional moves are technically possible on the ICCF server. The tournament organizer has the option to turn the conditional move feature on or off.
ICCF decided to turn it off for all ICCF tournaments. I don't recall the exact reason for doing this, but it has something to do with concerns about time abuse. One can peruse the ICCF Congress minutes to find why this was so decided.
Hannes Rada (2007-12-18 21:57:02)
conditional moves and ICCF bureaucracy
> ICCF decided to turn it off for all > ICCF tournaments. I don't recall the > exact reason for doing this, but it > has something to do with concerns > about time abuse. How can conditional moves be considered as "time abuse" ?? What is the rationale behind this ? Chessfriend.com had a perfect implementation of (secret) conditional moves. But ICCF is a slow, conservative and bureaucratic organization. Why not making a poll to find out if the players want this feature ....
Glen D. Shields (2007-12-19 00:07:29)
Send a Note to ICCF
Hannes - if you want a complete answer to ICCF's rationale, or to argue about ICCF's bureaucratic practices, I suggest you post on the ICCF forum or write one of the ICCF officials. I posted only what I recall. I don't represent ICCF, nor am I here to defend ICCF's decisions.
I agree that CFC's secret conditional moves worked well. Whether conditional moves add value is not an unanimous opinion. Some like it for convenience. Others hate it and believe it adds to an already too fast game. Personally I could care less either way.
Garvin Gray (2007-12-19 09:36:21)
no conditional moves
I do think no conditional moves is the best way to go. It is simple to understand and there is no possibility of confusion.
I can see that having conditional moves would increase a td's workload. On there that would be Thiabault.
Just easier to have no conditional moves and therefore no confusion.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-20 00:21:24)
conditional moves, ICCF
About conditional moves, it would be a lot of work to implement it, but anyway yes I'm opposed to it, following several discussions around it. I think it's not completely fair and adds a (small) chancy factor to the game, so in this way I understand "time abuse".
But I can't see yet how it adds some work to a tournament director (Garvin ?!)...
Garvin Gray (2007-12-20 20:28:01)
needs new glasses :)
But I can't see yet how it adds some work to a tournament director (Garvin ?!)...
I have not played on a server with conditional moves, but I would imagine that there are times when the two players disagree over what conditional moves were proposed and so the td has to sort it out and maybe 'offend' someone with a ruling against.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-20 21:42:02)
Conditional moves
I don't think so, it worked perfectly ie. at Chessfriend server. The program stores the conditional moves, there can't be any error but a human one. There was no case yet of a disowned move at FICGS, so I suppose it would be (have been) the same with conditional moves.
Hannes Rada (2007-12-20 23:27:22)
Unfair ?
Thibault, Why do you think conditionals are unfair ? There are some openings which are perferct for conditional moves. For example Grunfeld. On chessfriend I offered my opponent the first 10 or 12 moves as conditionals. And the game really started on the first day with an interesting middle game position (avoiding to enter the boring and well known opening moves step by step).
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-21 00:17:08)
Unfair
I agree, of course conditional moves may be useful to save time, often for both sides. That's not the point.
In many forced sequences, only one side may take advantage of conditional moves to save time, that's not fair and that's the point according to me.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-21 20:42:31)
conditionals
Hi Gino,
So it's up to the other player, who's almost forced to use conditional moves to save time also. But there are forced lines where only one player has "no choice", that's what I meant. Well, conditional moves could be implemented in many ways, with several lines, a complete tree and so on...
Garvin Gray (2008-01-07 18:21:04)
conditional move tournament
Can we have a conditional move non rated tournament to test out the differences as I have never played on a server with conditionals?
Might give some of us more idea of whether to be in favour of it or not.
Peter Unger (2008-01-15 14:58:03)
Conditional moves
Conditional moves! to accelerate the games. Peter Unger
Marc Lacrosse (2008-06-17 07:55:59)
Conditionals ?
I know that this has been discussed before...
But I still feel that possible use of conditional moves would be a nice improvement here.
Nothing mandatory : simply the possibility to tell your opponent : "If you play this move my answer is that one". I cannot see how it could hurt in any way but I feel that it may help soften (and fasten) the play in situations like forced suites, exchanges and so on.
Your opinion ?
Marc
Garvin Gray (2008-06-17 08:25:59)
conditional thematic tournament
I agree with this Marc and would like to see it trialled in a non rated tournament just like the thematic tournaments. That being said, I have seen Thibault express some concerns regarding conditional move use.
Thibault de Vassal (2009-01-08 19:17:53)
Chess improvements
Hi Hannes,
What do you mean better tables ? About the other improvements, this may be a choice in some cases. As you may have seen, there are forums with more options (ie. bbcode) inside FICGS, but I'm not sure this forum should follow the same way. The FICGS chess server is somewhere between IECG & the numerous over-featured servers, maybe it should keep its 'sober/serious' side, what do you think ?
I'm still not a fan of conditional moves, but I'm open to other improvements.
Finally, about the "dark side of FICGS", any improvement may bring new players :)
Don Groves (2009-04-19 08:08:48)
Verbal moves are impossible
Sorry, Normajean, but in order to send anything, including a message, you must press the "Send" button. If there is no move in the "Move" box, the send will be rejected. Good try though ;-)
Conditional moves are already forbidden by FICGS, so that doesn't work either.
Pablo Schmid (2010-02-24 18:46:11)
Conditional moves
Hello Thibault, I don't know if that proposition has been made in the past, but there are somes servers that use conditionnal moves, it's an useful tool to win time for both players on forced moves. Do you think it would be possible to put that fonction in ficgs?
Je profite au passage pour te demander ce que tu penses finalement du règlement sur 3 fois la même position.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-02-24 21:50:20)
Conditional moves
Conditional moves have been discussed several times and mainly in the following discussion where I tried to explain the main reasons why I'm not favorable to this :
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=4360
About the threefold repetition rule (situational vs. positional), there is something to fix indeed but I can't do it right now, I'm just doing all that I can to have a large broadband at home, which is my priority for 10 years now... but that's just hell!
Hannes Rada (2010-02-24 22:09:15)
Conditionnal moves
--------------------------------------
In many forced sequences, only one side may take advantage of conditional moves to save time, that's not fair and that's the point according to me
--------------------------------------
Thibault, that was your argument against conditionals almost 2 years ago.
However I did not understand and still do not understand this explanation.
I my opinion both players benefit from time saving conditionals.
However maybe you could add an option under player's preferences - "conditionals yes or no" and if both players agree than conditionals could be switchend on for that games.
FICGS is really a great server offering so many different features, other server don't, but missing conditionals is in my opinion a major deficit of this server.
(Some minor things could also be improved)
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-03 15:01:34)
Conditionnal moves
Hi Hannes (sorry for the delay).
Well players may save time thanks to conditional moves, but not at the same time and nothing guarantees that it will not be at the advantage of one player only during a particular game. Anyway, a conditional field exists in the database so there is some hope to see it one day, but it will be a big & complex work to make it coherent for the different games. Not for these months as there are other priorities, I'm afraid :/
But feel free to mention the other minor improvements, if I can do it within minutes, it will be done.
Garvin Gray (2010-03-03 15:32:09)
Conditional moves
I have an improvement for this thread. Fix up the spelling of the title :P
Thibault de Vassal (2010-03-13 21:30:50)
Conditional moves
Hi Hannes, you mean in such a page?
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=tournament&tournament=FICGS__CHESS__WORLD_CHAMPIONSHIP__000003&boards=1
Hannes Rada (2010-03-13 21:45:46)
Conditional moves
Yes Thibault.
In these pages chess notation first and then the diagram seems to be more logical (for me)
Ryan Cross (2010-05-02 20:05:07)
Speeding up Poker games
One option that wouldn't be too drastic as far as changing the way the game is played, but I'm sure would take some effort to implement, is simply conditional moves.
You called a raise off the button with a hand that doesn't hit so you check. However many hours later your opponent bets, as you expect. However many hours after that you finally fold.
With something as simple as a 'check/fold' switch for the current betting round, three moves could happen in practically the time of one. Not every time, but enough to make a difference.
Taking it a step further, one could create a list of advanced conditional moves. If my opponent bets between x and y, raise z. If my opponent bets between a and b, call. If my opponent checks, bet d, if opponent bets, fold.
So on and so forth. I've seen conditional moves work quite well in correspondence chess games, and to some extent conditional moves already work well in real time online poker games.
After that, one could consider programming starting hand ranges to fold, call, raise on the button. Though it would be nice if that somehow took stack size into consideration. But I digress, that's a suggestion for another day.
Thibault de Vassal (2010-05-02 22:01:16)
Speeding up Poker games
Nice idea... well, definitely I'll have to implement these conditional moves, but I'm afraid that will not be enough to speed up these poker games.
Heinz-Georg Lehnhoff (2010-05-03 00:22:51)
Speeding up Poker games
I like best of 5. I would not like to miss it.
I think small blinds could raise earlier: 20/2 35/4 50/8 65/16 80/32 100/64.
"there is a "bullet" time control for poker": That's true, but not an alternative to a tournament. I have tried it once. After more than 2 hours and (only!) 265 moves my opponent had to resign because he has to do other things. If I think that I played many poker games with more than 1000 moves ...
Conditional moves are too complicated for poker I think.
Brittany Smith (2010-06-29 00:42:14)
Speeding up Poker games
I've gotta say, the duration of poker games is rather tedious. ): Considering the varying time zones, there should be multiple options for time Controls, that I agree with. I also agree that maybe there should be more variation in the "best-ofs".
Instead of 60 days, how about 30 or 20? 25? I also think that conditional moves are much too complicated for poker. o:
Daniel Parmet (2011-02-22 20:17:12)
Conditional Moves
I'm not asking Thib to program this. I am wondering if it is possible that someone else could have programmed such a thing already to work with the browser as an addon/plugin. I several opponents who move instantly (without a millisecond) inbetween the move is returned to me. It is such a fast move return that my browser instead of loading a new game comes back to the same one!
Thibault de Vassal (2011-02-23 12:59:06)
Conditional Moves
Well, I often see poker players moving instantly or almost (half a second?!), but they do no use any plugin for sure... But sometimes you may have to play 2 consecutive moves at Poker, that looks like your case!
I don't think that such a plugin would be efficient or useful.
Garvin Gray (2011-04-02 19:56:04)
Conditional moves
I know this topic comes up infrequently, but I am wondering what are the arguments against conditional moves. On a few occasions recently I wish I could have used a conditional move, so I was wondering what are the cons for conditional moves.
I can think of a few cons, as well as pros.
Paul Valle (2011-04-02 21:59:27)
Conditional moves
I don´t know how difficult it is to implement conditional moves (I´m sure Thib has a short list of pending improvements with priorities). If it´s easy - I vote for including it. I can´t really see any major problems with offering it. On gameknot you can enter a long sequence of moves and I´ve had a game go the first 15 conditional moves before my opponent deviated. If something similar was implemented here, it would cut the average playing time for any tournament significantly.
Daniel Parmet (2011-04-02 22:46:52)
Conditional moves
I have a game going right now in which I really wish I had conditional moves.
Thibault de Vassal (2011-04-04 01:44:31)
Conditional moves
Hi guys, I understand your feeling, sorry about that... yes it would be a huge work to make conditional moves for chess or all games at FICGS, anyway I'm still not favourable to this for some reasons, eg. (from a previous discussion) "I think it's not completely fair and adds a (small) chancy factor to the game, so in this way I understand time abuse. (...) In many forced sequences, only one side may take advantage of conditional moves to save time, that's not fair (...) there are forced lines where only one player has no choice".
Don Groves (2011-04-04 05:55:42)
Conditional moves
I agree Thib, particularly when a game is played in widely separated time zones. The conditional move could give one player several hours advantage on an opponent's clock while they sleep.
Daniel Parmet (2011-04-04 07:33:36)
Conditional moves
if I may play devil's advocate... I believe it is precisely BECAUSE conditional moves are more fair that is why players want them. Now when a person is low on time or trying to extend the game into the next rating period they purposefully wait until the BEST hour in which to make a move to clip the most time off their opponent's clock. If conditional moves were in place, a person could sleep knowing that their forced response is already in the system for their sneaky opponent that just wants to flag them.
Don Groves (2011-04-05 00:05:15)
Conditional moves
So it works both ways, then...
Scott Nichols (2011-04-05 00:13:42)
Conditional moves
"if" moves used to be very good in the days of real "Postal Chess" where a move could take a month or two to receive. But these days where you can get a move and answer it in seconds if you want to, they (if moves) are not that big of deal. Certainly not worth the effort it would take to implement them. Also, there have been a few times where I wished I had not made that conditional move. Now I make it a practice to NEVER use them, even if available.
Don Groves (2011-04-05 06:02:48)
Conditional moves
Good points, Scott.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-04-29 11:23:50)
WBCCC-New stuff and Round 2 Update
Hello everyone! Its been a while since the last time I have updated. I would like to talk about recent happening. Then I will give an update on the games for this round.
I have had some talks with a few players. And I would like to announce that starting next year there will be more prizes. Besides the money prize next year. I haven't decide yet how many of these I will have yet. And its possible there could be more ideas to come by. Please also know that there will be money prizes still this is just something on also to add to the interests.
1.Subscriptions to annotated games. For example Chess Today, Chessvibes, chesspublishing.com and Opening Master. There can be others, these are just examples. If you have other good ideas here please post. Most likely this will be a combined prize here.
2.Rental time on the new Rybka Cluster- Not sure how exactly this one would work. It could be a lot different in a years time for the Rybka Cluster. But I think this would have some interests.
3.Hardware- Again not sure how I would do this. But I would probably have it as a middle to high end setup for a prize. Hardware is always a every changing process its hard to know what is good at that time.
Any other suggests are welcome. Probably the best realistic prize is the first one. If I have multiple prizes like this. The way it would probably play out is like a lottery system. Start with the winner and work your way down. On what they want and go 2nd, 3rd etc...
The last prize to talk about.(And maybe the best) I have had talks with the people of chesspublishing.com and next year. Whatever game is voted for "best game of the round". Will have there game analyzed, by one of the titled players on that site and have the game published. I will try and have it open to everyone that follows the games for the WBCCC.
The next thing of interest for next year. Is that we will have a conditional move system in place. It was thought in a blitz setting to be a great asset to have. For example if your opponent is in a different time zone than you and the next move to you would be a force move. It would be nice to have this option to make the forced play. Without having to say up late at night to make this obvious move. This is all the new stuff. Round 2 Update to come.
Jimmy Huggins (2011-11-28 10:38:22)
WBCCC 2 sign up and WBCCC 1 review
After an exciting WBCCC 1, Own Champion ppipper (José Sanz) wins with a finally score of 7.5 out 10. FICGS top players were in a tied for 2nd with Timothy Cookson, Sebastian Boehme, and Ruben Comes. Credit also has to go to David Evans who had ppipper as White in the last game. And went all out to beat him. In the end Jose pulled out the win with black. For those interested I highly recommend you read this article. About the champion talked about his tournament games.
http://www.chesscafe.com/chessok/chessok.htm
Now I wanted to go a head and open up the sign up for the 2nd edition of WBCCC and tell everyone about the improvements and add ons.
The first major improvement on WBCCC is that it will have a simple to use conditional move system. With our easy downloadable client we use. There is also going to be a 2nd tournament for those who prefer a little more time than own standard tournament of 30days per side. In the 2nd tournament that is going to be called Rybka Forum Grand Prix. Is going to be 30day for the first 40 moves and 30 days Sudden Death after that. So basically you get 30 more days for 40 moves on your clock. Now here is a few more things to know about the tournament. After each move, if you request it. You can have your move noticed to you by email. This is good for the busy person who doesn't check the game forums all the time. The other thing added to the tournament is that there will be a file on hand for everyone to check to see what sites everyone plays on it a head of time. This is good for guys who like to prepare for there opponent. As for other fun things offered. I finalize with chesspublishing.com that they will help for own best game per round and the winners will get there games analyzed by the top players there and will publish them on the forum. Which I can expand to here and the other forums I promote at. For some were scared of the time control, but in truth we only had 2 games time out, but this was because they left there games. Which was a disappointment, but 2 games over a whole tournament was very good! If you maybe interested, but are unsure about the time. I recommend talking to me and when can have a test game to see if you can handle it. Most know with in a week or 2 if they can do it or not. Thanks for the support of Thib and everyone that played this year and anyone that will try this next year!
Jimmy
Garvin Gray (2012-05-21 15:45:11)
Second match v Rybka Forum
Neel, Planning is only in its infancy and there are many hurdles to overcome.
So stay tuned.
Some of these hurdles include:
Interest from both sites?
Whether we use Rybka Forum's playing client?
If that will be available to all or just RF members?
What the time control will be?
Will players have to play their games on here as well as RF?
Whether conditional moves will be used?
How many players per team?
Is it possible to use the RF playing client, but have games transmitted live on both sites, so all members of both sites can follow the action as it happens?
Will chat be allowed in the games? This could be a sticking point as the two forums run very differently on this issue.
Who plays for which team?
And the list goes on.
Garvin Gray (2012-06-01 20:20:07)
Second match v Rybka Forum
I have been informed that the conditional move system of xfccplay can not be removed just for one tournament, so if we use xfccplay for at least half the games, conditionals will be in operation.
I still think we can go ahead with using xfccplay, just that the half of the games that are played using xfccplay will have conditionals, and the ones played here will not.
While it is an issue, it is not a big issue, or a showstopper.
Everyone will still be playing two games against the same opponent. One here and one with xfccplay at RF. I will give a couple of days for feedback. If there is no discussion, I will formalise details and then we will move on to official collection of entries, getting players familiar with xfccplay and then on to the games proper.
Garvin Gray (2012-06-08 11:07:00)
Second match v Rybka Forum
Following on from my post above, we will now be going with the format originally posted, which is:
1) Time control 30 moves initial plus 1 day increment
2) All individual matches are two games
3) Players are to play in rating order. - RF now does have some kind of rating system, at least for WBCCC participants. I think more of their players have also come over to here, so have ratings here.
4) Xfccplay will be used for the games played at RF
5) Conditional move system will be used for the games played at RF. Games played here will be using the standard interface.
Both sides are going to have to make compromises. Ficgs players who are not already familiar with xfccplay are going to need to learn how to use it and will also need to join RF.
RF players, who are not members of here already, will need to sign up to here and learn how to use this interface.
I can not give a definite sign up by this date yet as some of the nuts and bolts are still being worked out.
Can everyone start saying if they are going to play? I hope this will be more than just the players who already play in WBCCC as I do hope it is the best players from both sites participating as well.
Kym Farnik (2018-01-15 07:11:04)
Conditional chess moves (again)
Hi
I've used a site in the past with conditional moves. VERY handy!
Especially for forced moves or obvious moves.
For those against the idea - you don't have to use the feature :)
It would speed up games for those that want to use it.
I'm a software developer with PHP experience and would be happy to help implement the feature!
(Yes, putting my money where my mouth is so to speak)
Thanks!
Garvin Gray (2018-01-16 00:52:53)
Conditional chess moves (again)
Ahh conditional moves again. Seems like once a year this topic comes up. Rinse and repeat.
For the record, yes I am in favour it. So please do not take my position as being against it.
This discussion has been held before a few times, but the site does change.
Thibault, what is this sites current capability to handle conditional moves? They would only just have to be just one line linear conditionals.
Thibault de Vassal (2018-01-16 16:43:40)
Conditional chess moves (again)
Hi all,
Before everything, let's make it clear: Absolute priority (for years actually, but particularly since the launch of the Android apps) right now is to increase the popularity of the server, that slowly went down for more than 5 years. Now it's going better for the first time since, but I'm still working on and have much to do there.
Well, let's say this would be the right thing to do after all (which is another debate, with questions like what if a player does not want his opponent to use this option that by the way he cannot or does not want to use himself because it goes too fast and/or gains time on clock - case that I saw at another server).
Don't misunderstand me: I already used conditional moves at other servers and I liked it too, but I did not find it essential. Also, we all know that all opinions are in nature. And as a reminder, one goal of this server was to offer the simpliest & lightest (HTML or HTML & few javascript) interface.
Kim, one question to think about the work to do in your step 1:
How do you imagine the communication between a Javascript interface & php server? Well, I know how to implement Ajax (which I chose not to use at FICGS), this is not the point here. But it is not enough that moves are verified by javascript - that is a big work if you do it from zero - , it must be validated by the server itself, then confirmed or not to the player, meaning casually one more step. Means more php jobs from the server (which is not a big deal) so new codes that would be compatible between that Javascript UI (that must fit to site's design) & FICGS (that is not obvious if you know the small possible differences in terms of PGN format), a new field in database, the way to handle it after few conditional moves & so on.
Once more, it is feasible, of course. But there are obvious difficulties: it is not possible to add such code without being completely in FICGS codes, that are not object-oriented.
Anyway, if the number of active players grows again, I'm quite sure we'll have a good occasion to discuss it (with some more pressure ^^).
Thibault de Vassal (2018-01-17 02:04:09)
Conditional chess moves (again)
Many thanks for this nice proposal Kym! By the way, I have no doubt that you could do much better than me (and with more time).
Well, as you understood FICGS has become a big complex (& quite old) thing that is not easy to shake. Each time I think about conditional moves, the more problems I identify (chess 960, draw offers, messages & so on)
Let's give us a few weeks to think about it. Not a way to throw it away, but I really need time for now to work on apps popularity.
Garvin Gray (2018-01-17 03:45:40)
Conditional chess moves (again)
Problems to identify and solutions:
As a starting point for the games:
Conditional moves would be restricted to the classical chess style. We have to start somewhere and this is the tried and tested format and most well known. So there are already sites out there using conditional moves in classical chess.
As for draw offers. If a player wants to offer a draw, the linear conditional move line stops at that move. They have to input their move and the draw offer by ticking the box.
Then the move passes to player B with the draw offer and they have to accept or decline the draw offer and play their move.
And then play resumes as normal with linear conditional moves.
This is how linear conditional moves worked when I ran the WBCCC events.
I am not sure what you mean by messages?
Kym Farnik (2018-01-17 04:44:57)
Conditional chess moves (again)
Messages to the opponent.
On a technical note, I would envision a JavaScript too that would allow:
1. The move
2. Conditional Move Line 1 and response Moves ...
Maybe more than one conditional lines
The whole web transaction, Move + Conditionals + messages are validated client side via the JS.
Then the transaction is re-validated on the server (to stop hacking).
The whole transaction is accepted or not.
Garvin Gray (2018-01-17 12:57:54)
Conditional chess moves (again)
Kym: Point 2- regarding whether to allow more than one line of conditional moves.
I think it is important to introduce a concept now called project scope. What this means is setting the outer limits of the project and also what are the main aims, or purpose of the project.
Anything that is outside of these aims, is outside of the project scope and is rejected.
As was stated by yourself in the first post:
I've used a site in the past with conditional moves. VERY handy!
Especially for forced moves or obvious moves.
For those against the idea - you don't have to use the feature :)
It would speed up games for those that want to use it.
And then Herbert Kruse said- I like that idea.
So that gives a very good idea of what the project scope is, or the reason for allowing conditional moves- to allow players to make forced moves or obvious moves through conditional moves.
An issue that already occurs in correspondence chess is players either resigning by mistake, move slips, or other mistakes.
Introducing conditional moves will increase the possibility of this occurring. This is why the number of conditional moves must be kept to a minimum, hence why I believe the requirement for linear conditional moves.
This also makes it much easier to deal with draw offers.
Thibault de Vassal (2018-01-21 17:06:34)
Conditional chess moves (again)
Now I'm to integrate chess.js & chessboard.js in some parts of the site to remove the flash chess board... one issue with conditional moves would be that FICGS rules are slightly different from FIDE rules: no 50/60 moves rule here. Anyway, to be continued.
Peter Brodie (2024-05-19 18:27:20)
Conditional
How do you offer conditional moves? It isn't that obvious..
Bahadir Ozen (2024-10-19 16:25:41)
Conditional Moves Method
Hello, thank you for keeping the site active!
I am curious; ICCF - as in LSS; Is it possible to make conditional moves in FICGS? Could it be possible in the future?
Kind regards
Thibault de Vassal (2024-10-24 00:03:34)
Conditional Moves Method
Hello Bahadir,
No, sorry, at least not before years... As I explained in previous forum posts, it won't be feasible without making very big changes that I can't do for now (many things to do for FICGS before this).
All the best, Thibault
Bahadir Ozen (2024-10-24 10:38:59)
Conditional Moves Method
Thank you Thibault. Its not that big deal, I like how FICGS running... Have a great day.:)
Regards
Ulises Pineda (2025-11-19 06:45:16)
Clarification of Rating Groups
I'm contributing with my moves and participation in the platform, I also don't ask for money to the site owner to see my moves or to start new games, because it goes both ways, without players like me participating, the site would die, if someone gets a very sour taste in their mouth that they stop participating, it's the beginning of the end.
The players are needed, is the site needed? We're already playing a game in another place, Ozen, I see you making conditional moves over there that you can't send here, so what's the advantage of playing over here instead of playing over there?
At the end of the day, I come here because of the players I can face here, that only play at FICGS, so it's the only way. If they happen to leave because of some circumstances, then the site becomes pointless.
FICGS is its players.
FICGS needs the players more than the players need FICGS.
Gratitude goes both ways, I don't feel appreciated because the site's owner hasn't even replied here, because I'm just another useless player and if I left someone else would come to replace me, perhaps someone that buys tickets.
If I'm not valuable, if my games and move contributions are meaningless perhaps I should stop creating new games around here, there's other places that are completely free, have more features, and don't let players pay to get in higher rated tiers.
Bahadir Ozen (2025-11-19 08:46:16)
Clarification of Rating Groups
Mr. Ulises Pineda,
Of course, you're valuable. The time you spend, your actions, and your interaction enrich both me, the players, and the site. Thank you for your efforts.
It's clear that each site has its own infrastructure and process. Yes, we play on a different site, and there can be conditional moves there. But FICGS's games also go to the Corr Database, and they're respected. We can say it's a proven platform.
You're right about the ticket issue being annoying. In that case, the paying player has a slightly greater advantage.
I agree with you in the long run, but the person who keeps the site "usable" also puts in the effort. Perhaps a different update on this rule will be forthcoming.
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