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Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-08 13:10:47)
Things to be implemented...
Hello to all... and thank you for your confidence in this very new server (when no game started yet ! maybe today...)
I expected a high average rating, but not so much :)
The last update provoked the first bug -> in this forum. Sorry to all who tried to post here. It should work now.
Here are things to be implemented in the future :
- Vacations (until, time limit by move is 2 months)
- Conditional moves
- A better interface for the forum...
Don't hesitate if you have ideas to improve the website !
Best wishes.
Marc Lacrosse (2006-04-22 15:39:05)
Conditional moves ?
I cannot figure how to propose conditional moves. Is this feature implemented yet?
Maybe I did not read the rules accurately...
Marc
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-23 06:12:25)
Not yet
Conditional moves will be probably implemented, but not this week... Many things to do before.
I think it's generally an appreciated feature. Some players don't like to receive "automatic" moves just after they played, but it seems to be a "must" have for CC servers.
Stefano Ghisi (2006-04-23 16:36:50)
conditional moves?
I think it's a feature important. Then, if you want to use it, you use...
Graham Wyborn (2006-04-25 13:13:52)
Condition Moves?
I have played on another site which uses conditional moves. The Conditional Move is only operated after you opponent moves, therefore you are unaware of your opponents offer. Also players can turn the feature on or off. So if one player has it turned off, the opponent cannot use it. Conditional moves are good time savers. especially when making a capture and the opponent has only one good reply. It saves time. Hope Conditional Moves are coming to this site too!
Thibault de Vassal (2006-04-25 16:09:45)
So, no need to turn it off... !?
That's not obvious... Conditional moves may save time, may irritate too... Is it really "fair" ? His existence is arguable, in my opinion.
Graham Cridland (2006-04-25 16:31:57)
?
You can't do anything with conditional moves you can't do just making the moves yourself. It isn't like it makes imitation harder to spot. It just saves time.
Graham Cridland (2006-04-25 17:22:16)
Hmm.
Well, I see your point (I have an opponent like that) but what you're really objecting to is their failure to use their time, not conditional moves (or even fritz). And I can't imagine that forcing people to use their time will be popular. Just have to NOT send the move back right away, sit down at the board, and figure out where Fritz goes wrong. Our German friend isn't all knowing (especially at the 14-16 ply people only give him much of the time). So you should generally win those games.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-08-24 13:31:19)
Premove (conditional moves)
Hi Benjamin.
Conditional moves was one of the first features expected and discussed here... I'm still not sure it is a good idea. Of course it may save time in forced sequences, but there are some controversial issues (see previous discussions with Glen about chess servers) about time and holidays. Anyway, the truth is it's a major change, and I've too many things to do right now :/
Dinesh De Silva (2006-08-24 14:01:52)
Re: Premove (conditional moves).....
I think such issues as CONDITIONAL MOVES & VACATION TIME ALLOWED are sure to be debated in the future too. Some sites allow conditional moves , some don't. Some sites allow vacation time of 30 or 30+ days per year per tournament (and sometimes even special leave), some sites don't. These issues are sure to be hotly debated for a long time.
Sandor Marton-Bardocz (2007-01-16 18:29:21)
Conditional Move
Hi there! I noticed that there was a topic regarding conditional moves but it is closed. I think that conditional moves, aren't a bad thing after all..it should be implemented..Just think about the first moves of a game....for now, even the weakest players play theory ( fritz database or something)and this implies that the first moves will be played rather fast...Then why spend time clicking around to get to the games on a starting tournament over&over again, just to play the well known moves? U can overcome the "irritation" issue by limitating the use of conditional moves. Let's say every player has the right to use for example ...10 conditional moves in the begining of the game (in the first 15 moves for example). After that in 10 to 10 moves have let's say 2 possibilities to use conditional moves...This way it's erradicated the annoyance of countless use of premoves. Btw. I think that the example of those players who might use Fritz or whatever chessprogram to play, and then premove the lines indicated by the engine isn't really good..Only if the opponnent against whom they use it ...playes using the same lines indicated by ....an engine :-) Otherwise I can't realise how on earth the replied moves can be the same and matching with....or those lines are really forced..and if that is the case then the use of premoves is normal. Thank You.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-01-17 11:24:53)
Conditional Move
Hello Sandor.
Still I have no time enough to implement this major change :/ .. This question, premove / conditional moves, will be debated again & again anyway.
My best. Thibault
Hannes Rada (2007-09-09 19:03:05)
My wish list
- Conditional moves - drag and drop for the imput of the moves - I would like to see the graphical board diagrams after the chess notation not before
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-09 19:28:27)
Drag and drop
I have to look for a way to implement drag & drop without java. I still have no idea about it... About conditional moves, that's the eternal question. I think I won't implement it, sorry :/
About the graphical interface, why would you like to see it below the chess notation ?! .. Maybe to avoid to scroll down if you write your moves ?
Hannes Rada (2007-09-09 21:26:43)
board diagrams + conditionals
Not for the imput of my own moves. For scrolling down through whole tournaments it is in my opinion more logic to see first the notation and then the current position on the diagram. I think it is quite hard or difficult to implement conditional moves. The ICCF-Webserver has this feature, but it is disabled. We had a perfect solution on the chessfriend server (silent conditional moves - great for saving reflection time and to speed up to game). Somte openings like the Grunfeld or the Sveshnikov are 'pefect' for conditionals :-)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-09-09 21:43:59)
board diagrams + conditionals
I understand that some openings are quite "boring" to play :) .. and I saw conditional moves on Chessfriend server. Why is it disabled at ICCF server ?
Conditional moves is a quite difficult feature to implement, that's true (even more with several games). Also there are many ways to imagine it ! .. But the main question is "would it be fair" ?
Robert Mueller (2007-12-16 13:57:56)
Conditional Moves
I am sure this must have been discussed in the past, but if I could vote for one improvement on the FICGS server software, it would be conditional moves. After all, it is soon Christmas and the time for big wishes ;)
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-16 16:22:18)
Conditional Moves
Indeed, it has :) .. Conditional moves still brings many questions but I'm still opposed to the idea.
Anyway a new wish list is a good idea ! .. The main issue I'm working on these days is money prizes for WCH & freestyle tournaments, but ideas for improvements are always welcome.
Robert Mueller (2007-12-17 05:54:09)
Why are you opposed to the idea?
Now I am puzzled. I thought there were no conditional moves on this server because it is a technical issue. Why would you be opposed to the idea? It is pretty much standard in correspondence chess, even on servers.
Glen D. Shields (2007-12-17 14:51:16)
Conditional Moves ICCF Server
Conditional moves are technically possible on the ICCF server. The tournament organizer has the option to turn the conditional move feature on or off.
ICCF decided to turn it off for all ICCF tournaments. I don't recall the exact reason for doing this, but it has something to do with concerns about time abuse. One can peruse the ICCF Congress minutes to find why this was so decided.
Hannes Rada (2007-12-18 21:57:02)
conditional moves and ICCF bureaucracy
> ICCF decided to turn it off for all > ICCF tournaments. I don't recall the > exact reason for doing this, but it > has something to do with concerns > about time abuse. How can conditional moves be considered as "time abuse" ?? What is the rationale behind this ? Chessfriend.com had a perfect implementation of (secret) conditional moves. But ICCF is a slow, conservative and bureaucratic organization. Why not making a poll to find out if the players want this feature ....
Glen D. Shields (2007-12-19 00:07:29)
Send a Note to ICCF
Hannes - if you want a complete answer to ICCF's rationale, or to argue about ICCF's bureaucratic practices, I suggest you post on the ICCF forum or write one of the ICCF officials. I posted only what I recall. I don't represent ICCF, nor am I here to defend ICCF's decisions.
I agree that CFC's secret conditional moves worked well. Whether conditional moves add value is not an unanimous opinion. Some like it for convenience. Others hate it and believe it adds to an already too fast game. Personally I could care less either way.
Garvin Gray (2007-12-19 09:36:21)
no conditional moves
I do think no conditional moves is the best way to go. It is simple to understand and there is no possibility of confusion.
I can see that having conditional moves would increase a td's workload. On there that would be Thiabault.
Just easier to have no conditional moves and therefore no confusion.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-20 00:21:24)
conditional moves, ICCF
About conditional moves, it would be a lot of work to implement it, but anyway yes I'm opposed to it, following several discussions around it. I think it's not completely fair and adds a (small) chancy factor to the game, so in this way I understand "time abuse".
But I can't see yet how it adds some work to a tournament director (Garvin ?!)...
Garvin Gray (2007-12-20 20:28:01)
needs new glasses :)
But I can't see yet how it adds some work to a tournament director (Garvin ?!)...
I have not played on a server with conditional moves, but I would imagine that there are times when the two players disagree over what conditional moves were proposed and so the td has to sort it out and maybe 'offend' someone with a ruling against.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-20 21:42:02)
Conditional moves
I don't think so, it worked perfectly ie. at Chessfriend server. The program stores the conditional moves, there can't be any error but a human one. There was no case yet of a disowned move at FICGS, so I suppose it would be (have been) the same with conditional moves.
Hannes Rada (2007-12-20 23:27:22)
Unfair ?
Thibault, Why do you think conditionals are unfair ? There are some openings which are perferct for conditional moves. For example Grunfeld. On chessfriend I offered my opponent the first 10 or 12 moves as conditionals. And the game really started on the first day with an interesting middle game position (avoiding to enter the boring and well known opening moves step by step).
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-21 00:17:08)
Unfair
I agree, of course conditional moves may be useful to save time, often for both sides. That's not the point.
In many forced sequences, only one side may take advantage of conditional moves to save time, that's not fair and that's the point according to me.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-12-21 20:42:31)
conditionals
Hi Gino,
So it's up to the other player, who's almost forced to use conditional moves to save time also. But there are forced lines where only one player has "no choice", that's what I meant. Well, conditional moves could be implemented in many ways, with several lines, a complete tree and so on...
Garvin Gray (2008-01-07 18:21:04)
conditional move tournament
Can we have a conditional move non rated tournament to test out the differences as I have never played on a server with conditionals?
Might give some of us more idea of whether to be in favour of it or not.
Peter Unger (2008-01-15 14:58:03)
Conditional moves
Conditional moves! to accelerate the games. Peter Unger
Marc Lacrosse (2008-06-17 07:55:59)
Conditionals ?
I know that this has been discussed before...
But I still feel that possible use of conditional moves would be a nice improvement here.
Nothing mandatory : simply the possibility to tell your opponent : "If you play this move my answer is that one". I cannot see how it could hurt in any way but I feel that it may help soften (and fasten) the play in situations like forced suites, exchanges and so on.
Your opinion ?
Marc
Garvin Gray (2008-06-17 08:25:59)
conditional thematic tournament
I agree with this Marc and would like to see it trialled in a non rated tournament just like the thematic tournaments. That being said, I have seen Thibault express some concerns regarding conditional move use.
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