Berlin Defense

  

Berlin Defense


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Ilmars Cirulis    (2021-03-19)
Berlin Defense

Why do people keep playing Ruy Lopez if there's Berlin Defense that's drawish more than enough?

I still haven't lost a game in Berlin Defense as black.


Ilmars Cirulis    (2021-03-19 19:33:03)
Berlin Defense

Well, at least I don't remember any loss in long time control games. Maybe I should search my games to be 100% sure about it.


Thibault de Vassal    (2021-03-19 23:53:22)
Berlin Defense

Hmmm, it could be a nice thematic tournament soon :)

You're right actually! I searched games at FICGS, when white elo & black elo > 2300 there is no win for White since 2012 ! (and Black won regularly since then)

That's a good score for Berlin defense. To be continued.


Daniel Parmet    (2021-03-21 06:43:20)
Berlin Defense

I have 160 games in the Berlin Defense since 2007. My last loss was in 2013. I can tell you that most people avoid the Ruy with me or e4 all together.


Wilhelm Schuett    (2021-03-23 19:41:03)
Berlin Defense

i would try to win against the Berlin Wall


Wilhelm Schuett    (2021-03-26 18:23:14)
Berlin Defense

the Berlin Wall as a thematic tournament


Garvin Gray    (2021-04-02 06:08:44)
Berlin Defense

Before giving my thoughts on why white is still playing the Ruy Lopez given the drawing odds of the Berlin in correspondence chess, how many games and out of how many has black won with the Berlin?


Wilhelm Schuett    (2021-04-02 13:46:48)
Berlin Defense

i don't know. White could also play 4. Nc3 or 4. Qe2


Wilhelm Schuett    (2026-05-03 03:40:36)
Berlin Defense

Did we had Berlin Defence or the Berlin Wall as a thematic tournament?


Thibault de Vassal    (2026-05-11 23:38:32)
Berlin Defense

Yes, #12 #104 & #105


Ulises Pineda    (2026-05-13 10:25:32)
Berlin Defense

What else is there to play, though? If black tries to play the Berlin and you try to avoid it, it would have been best to avoid it with the Italian. The Italian remains a landmine to this day, with Stockfish at Depth 30 showing a white advantage and Depth 40 switching to a black one, in some positions, I'd be happy to play the Italian and become black instead of being white in the Berlin!

Against lower rated opposition, the Berlin is a nightmare, it's as if they have found a way to force a draw against you, but you're supposed to try to win as Black to prove your superior playing strength.

This all makes me want to abandon 1.e4 entirely, but I haven't found a convincing line for 1.d4 (to me the Ragozin is d4's Berlin), though I have the most wins with Nf3, I think, against creative players (those that avoid mainlines for fun) 1.e4 remains the best option, they will not defend with the Berlin.

It's a thing about not playing the board, but the opponent, one that wants to win as black will not play the Berlin, and then the Ruy Lopez is the best option.


George Jempty    (2026-05-27 22:26:57)
Berlin Defense

As it turns out, the Siesta is just as drawish as the Berlin (Capablanca knew it was sound all along), but WAY more fun, especially OTB, with winning chances for both sides, but I like Black


Ulises Pineda    (2026-05-28 09:30:16)
Berlin Defense

OTB I like the Schliemann Defense against the Spanish, after 3...f5 black is completely fine and there's no winning line for white, but there are two other things. First, you can feel it in the air, Ruy Lopez players have spent a great deal of time studying it and they want to prove their superior knowledge aiming for lines where they win if black plays a small inaccuracy, which happens often and that's why they like playing it.

You take that away which is a psychological victory.

Second, they have two options, either they play fast and will most likely abandon the advantage because white needs accurate play to keep her edge, or they will sit to think on the best continuation, but after the position settles down it's equal and you come up with a huge advantage on the clock.

My favorite line is when you have your queen on d4 and they play Nxg6 because they're used to positions where capturing back allows white's queen to capture the rook on h8, only to find out they can't do that because it's protected by the queen! So they have to play Qxg6+ but after covering or moving the king black is already better!

It's as if I saw the Spanish die before my eyes like that, even if my wins are mostly on the clock, it has forced players to avoid playing it against me, because it's easier to go into some g3 and Bb2 stuff and beat me from there than figuring out how to play against 3...f5.

My only lament is its name, it would be so cool if it was the Schliemann Gambit, or Schliemann Counter-Attack or something that gives it justice.


Ulises Pineda    (2026-05-28 09:48:28)
Berlin Defense

Oh, I didn't know, it's the Jaenisch Gambit, perfect!


George Jempty    (2026-05-28 12:36:54)
Berlin Defense

I used to play the Deferred Schliemann. I used to steer for a line in which the analog without 3...a6 had been played as Black by Lasker, a line involving ...Bd6. I tried it in a US Correspondence championship qualifying round in the 90s but didn't play accurately at all in the opening after that, this was a no-engines tournament (well it was the 90s anyway). But the game score made it's way into chessbase, and a Norwegian IM drew GM Sax with the line in 2005. So I was influencing theory way before the centaur/correspondence era ;) Also, in any case, I've been drawn to ...f5 lines for quite a while, I used to play the Latvian when I was a teenager, but now I've settled on the Modern Steinitz, with it's possibility for the Siesta, but I think overall is more sound than other lines involving ...f5, but still with plenty of winning chances; e.g. the Noah's Ark trap. As Black I play for a win, as White I try not to lose LOL